Todays crew on The Santa Fe: Pantoja and friend, Freek, Rinaldo, Number1stunner AKA suddendeath and me.
The catch: not worth mentioning.
Visibility: 20ft+-
Seas: Choppy 3-4ft

Conditions were just not with us but we had a good time nevertheless. The highlight of the day was Oscar featuring his very first and hopefully last blackout. I only know about it from what I've been told as I was napping on the anchored boat to be awakened by yells and whistles from 100 yards away. Upon pulling up the anchor and speeding over I was not greeted by the capture of a 50lb grouper nor by sightings of the tax collector, rather I was told by Freek that Oscar blacked out after extending his bottom time to retrieve a shaft stuck in the bottom. He came up and after surfacing down he went again. Fortunately Freek who recently participated in the FIT freediving course knew what to look for as far as signs of a blackout coming on and was watching Oscar as he was coming up. Freek grabbed Oscar immediately as he started sinking again. I'll let both guys tell their story as there are lessons to be learned here.

Back on the boat Oscar was understandably gloomy but only for a short while as we razzed the death out of him about it :D I have to say he handled it very well, I would have been upset for much longer. Bottom line is we are here to help each other and there is no shame in being helped/rescued.

Off to a quick recovery in the bay in chest deep water drinking beer and some more razzing. Today was the debut of Oscar's underwater camera that he mounted to his gun and some funny pics were taken of Oscar's convalescence. Even more interestingly there is in existence a video of the blackout as the camera was running in video mode throughout the ill fated dive. To be posted soon..

EDIT - How could I forget, thanks Pantoja for being as always a most gracious host.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/da4095/Corona2.jpg

Oscar and Pantoja.

Great time meeting You Dan.
And another big thank you to Pantoja.
It was definitely intense watching the entire event unfold. I just remember commenting to Freek that Oscar was down for a long ass time. I was about to dive down to make sure everything was alright and up comes Oscar. I noticed something was wrong when he started dancing erratically. I didn't even have time to react Freek had him lifted above the water and he was screaming at him "Breath, Breath!"

It's nice to know what a solid group of guys you all are. The entire community owes you a thank you Freek. Your quick reaction and the entire group of guys coordinating the rescue saved someone's life today.

Rinaldo

Oscar, don't eat bagels before diving anymore, the fish didn't really like it !

Great job on recognizing the blackout and keeping an eye on your dive partner. Without that, this would most likely be an obituary not a lighthearted trip report. The difference between a sinking, blacked-out diver and a dead guy is nothing more than an aware buddy. I dont even know the guy but I thank you for saving him.
Blacking out is surely nothing to be embarrassed about. Could happen to any of us on any day.

I'm really glad you're okay Oscar, that's a close call and a lesson for everyone.

Frank, you're the man. :toast:

Oscar, don't eat bagels before diving anymore, the fish didn't really like it !Good to meet you too Rinaldo. Yeah Oscar, strawberry cream cheese bagel WTF!! :p :D

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/da4095/Beer1.jpg

Glad you are still here Oscar.

Hey guys...theres not much to really say on my part except a quick explanation of what I remember happening. It was a 60ft drop I believe. I followed a mutton....took the shot...*nicked it* but the shaft got stuck in a rock. Luckily today I had a float line...but the only thing was that I forgot that I had a float line because I've become so accustomed to using a reel. Since I forgot about my float line, I began struggling with the shaft and with my reel thinking that I'd be losing my gun and camera. I finally realized the amount of time I had been at the bottom and I began my ascent. All I know is that I bolted for the surface ...by then it was too late and the next thing I remember is Freek holding me up with my mask off my face.


I can't thank Freek enough, I owe my life to him. If it wasn't for him I wouldn't be here typing on the computer. The experience was very humbling and makes me realize that no fish and no piece of equipment is ever worth risking your life.

Thanks for the good time guys, thanks Pantoja for the great time as always, and Freek...thanks for keeping me out of the water, I can't thank you enough. Dan thanks for everything as well...ragging on me kind of made me think less of what happened. Rinaldo, it was great to finally meet you.

Heres a link to the video...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/773423/the_day_i_almost_died/

You all are the best :toast:

Rescue training paid off big time! Good to be alive isn't it. Next time do yourself a favor and weight yourself so that you do not sink. Could be the diference between life and death bro.

glad oscar is fine. great job Freek on being there for your buddy. I know I've come up on a few occasions from difficult dives with noone watching me, it's not a good feeling.

it was very rough up north today, couldn't dive the deeper stuff due to a nasty thermo that felt like a 15 degree temp drop 15-20' from the bottom, body went into shock when you hit with our dive skins and 1.5mm suits, just not doable

Rescue training paid off big time! Good to be alive isn't it. Next time do yourself a favor and weight yourself so that you do not sink. Could be the diference between life and death bro.

Very true...I'm definitely overweighted b/c I'm currently set up for my full wetsuit.

Glad you are ok.

wow glad you okay never would of thought about that free diving good job freek now not only a boat mechanic but can sub as life guard. Glad everyone came out okay Video was awesome shows how quick things can change...

I'd say the biggest lesson learned here is watch your buddy...one up,one down. Rinaldo asked me where Oscar was, I said "I think he shot something???".......waiting......waiting.....I look down and around... nothing.I see him finally, coming up like a rocket, no gun in hand. He had all the signs..body was struggling to get to surface,blue lips, and his eyes had this oh shit! look in them. He made to the surface, he was already in samba, as soon as he exhaled, he was out and went under. I was probably about 6 feet away from him as I dropped my gun and went for him. Pulled him up from underwater, kept his airway outta the water, mask off, pat him on the cheek and told him to breathe. He was probably out for 10 seconds and took him about another 15 to get his bearings back. Pretty cool in that I didn't have to think about what to do, it was all automatic..I'm glad you're ok Oscar, maybe one day it will be your turn to save your buddy.

Some guys are not even boyant enough with no weight on, in that case you have to wear some neoprene to make yourself positively boyant at the surface. I did the same thing man. I was hanging out at 66 foot and didn't even feel like I needed to breath. I looked at my watch and it had already been 2 min so I freeked out, and bolted to the surface. I made the surface and blacked out. Later, PFI instructors told me that if I had just been able to keep my cool and relaxed, I probrably would have made it with no problem. The worst thing you can do is bolt to the surface, it makes your heart race and then you are worse off than if you take your time and stay calm and signalling to your buddy that should be watching you on your way up that you may need some help, this way they will by right on you when you surface and protect your airway from getting water in it. 90% of blackouts occur after you hit the surface. So glad we are chatting about this today and you are alive man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very true...I'm definitely overweighted b/c I'm currently set up for my full wetsuit.

Freek, did he have his snorkel in his mouth as he was coming up?

BTW the Metacafe link doesn't work for me, I get the web page but the video doesn't play.

No he had the snorkel out. That link worked for me,took a long time to upload.

He made to the surface, he was already in samba, as soon as he exhaled, he was out and went under.If he didn't have the snorkel in his mouth why did he exhale? The first thing to do when your mouth breaks the surfce is inhale. Or are you saying that he inhaled then exhaled and sank?

Oscar, just a quick question... if the shaft was stuck and you had the reel on the gun, as you are accustomed to having, why didn't you switch the reel "off" and head immediately for the surface with the gun in hand and the reel letting line out with no resistance? I frequently do this on deep drops, if I spear something and it gets tangled up I just turn the reel "off" and head back up and do another drop to get the fish/shaft out. We have the same Riffe reel so I know there's an on/off switch there, I think that's the best part about the Riffe reel.

BTW, how was the fishing?

I am going to give an honest critique of what i see happening. From what i gathered, 60 ft is probably a bit deep for you or very close to your limit. When removing spears its best to pull yourself down the line to the spear. Use your biceps and back muscles to tug yourself to the line. Your leg muscles are the biggest muscle in the body and also burn the most energy. Like gogators27 said, bolting to the surface is really bad. Its like flooring your car to the gas station when you have very little gas.

How much weight do you have on there? Are those 3lb weights? 9lbs total? Thats too much for someone not wearing a full suit. If its 6lbs its probably good enough.

How much bottom time do you have at 60ft? Your total dive time looked like around 1:15-1:20

Screw the reel, you have to legally/should want to tow a float and a flag anyways. I can shoot any size fish and let go of the gun if I have to without giving it a second thought. In a panic situation such as realizing you spent too much time on the bottom the finer motor functions such as turning a knob, flipping a switch or even disengaging a quick release mechanism on a knife go to shit. You don't want to be thinking about anything else but relaxing and surfacing clamly.

I agree, especially if the vis is bad for two reasons. One reason, if you do have to let go of your gun you can find it again. In a current or in bad vis you may never see your gun again, and therefore will be less likely to let go of it. Reason #2 is if your buddy can't see you due to limited vis, then the float line at least gives a sense of where they are going to come up. Having a buddy on the surface does no good if you come up 35 feet away from them and then pass out, they need to be very close to do any good, so the float line lets them know which direction you went.

Screw the reel, you have to legally/should want to tow a float and a flag anyways. I can shoot any size fish and let go of the gun if I have to without giving it a second thought. In a panic situation such as realizing you spent too much time on the bottom the finer motor functions such as turning a knob, flipping a switch or even disengaging a quick release mechanism on a knife go to shit. You don't want to be thinking about anything else but relaxing and surfacing clamly.

Screw the reel, you have to legally/should want to tow a float and a flag anyways. I can shoot any size fish and let go of the gun if I have to without giving it a second thought. In a panic situation such as realizing you spent too much time on the bottom the finer motor functions such as turning a knob, flipping a switch or even disengaging a quick release mechanism on a knife go to shit. You don't want to be thinking about anything else but relaxing and surfacing clamly.

I never had a problem with my reel. Its always on loose drag and it never locks up.

That's the nature of problems, you never have one until you actually do.I never had a problem with my reel. Its always on loose drag and it never locks up.

That's the nature of problems, you never have one until you actually do.

I agree with Dan, I know that most professionals use reels but how many of us are professional spearfisherman with 2+ min bottom times below 60'?

I have tried both and while I never had a problem myself I witnessed bad stuff first hand. Like Dan said, you've never a problem until you do for the first time then what..

Here are 2 examples, one day wolf and I were diving a ledge in 66', it was cloudy low vis, maybe 20', wolf shoots a fish, shafts passes through fish and gets embedded into the rock, the shooting line got caught with the bands and reel line would not release, wolf came up with no gun, we signaled the boat to come over and mark the spot but with ripping current, we were off 200-300' before the boat gets there, took us the next 1.5 hrs to find his gun and we got lucky because I knew the area and knew what to look for in the depth sounder to get close to the spot.

Another day, my buddy and I are doing some deep drops on the edge of the boynton reef (about 80') to look for big hogs and muttons. We are using one gun (my carbon RA 140 with a reel) taking turns, my buddy goes down 82', shoots a big mutton, but again the bands get stuck on the muzzle and reel line does not release, I know this guy and the last thing he would do is drop my gun down there so instead he dragged the fish up from below 80' and later told me it was a really difficult dive.

Summary: I took my reel off my long guns. No reel if diving deep, only a reel for diving shallow less than 40' where I know my bottom time is 2:00+; float line is so much safer, specially in deeper stuff.

Great job Freek, I commend your actions big time.

I hope a valuable lesson is learned from this incident and I won't even try to "Monday Morning Quarterback it" as I'm sure it will be rehashed and analyzed for years to come, particularly from the guys who experienced it. Oscar, we are all glad to see posts from you today, please be safe out there and always be keen on the conditions, your set-up and limitations.

Wow just read the news that was crazy. Good to see everything is ok Oscar.

Freek awesome job.

Hey guys I don't know how to "quote" multiple people to respond to questions, but here are the questions and here are my responses.

Kris: Oscar, just a quick question... if the shaft was stuck and you had the reel on the gun, as you are accustomed to having, why didn't you switch the reel "off" and head immediately for the surface with the gun in hand and the reel letting line out with no resistance? I frequently do this on deep drops, if I spear something and it gets tangled up I just turn the reel "off" and head back up and do another drop to get the fish/shaft out. We have the same Riffe reel so I know there's an on/off switch there, I think that's the best part about the Riffe reel.

Greekdiver: I am going to give an honest critique of what i see happening. From what i gathered, 60 ft is probably a bit deep for you or very close to your limit. When removing spears its best to pull yourself down the line to the spear. Use your biceps and back muscles to tug yourself to the line. Your leg muscles are the biggest muscle in the body and also burn the most energy. Like gogators27 said, bolting to the surface is really bad. Its like flooring your car to the gas station when you have very little gas.

How much weight do you have on there? Are those 3lb weights? 9lbs total? Thats too much for someone not wearing a full suit. If its 6lbs its probably good enough.

How much bottom time do you have at 60ft? Your total dive time looked like around 1:15-1:20

Kris: to be honest with you...I have no idea, I've never had that problem before...its as if it locked up or something...or maybe in the panic in worrying that I was going to lose my gun and camera I switched it on/off...back and forth. I was trying to drag the gun up WITH the resistance ON. So now I learned that lesson. (learn to be familiar with your equipment).

Greekdiver: The problem with yesterday isn't that I got my shaft stuck, surfaced, and then went back to work it out. The problem with yesterday is that I have slowly started to become "overconfident" in the water so immediately after I took my shot I attempted to free my shaft without an attempt to surface. I have done deeper dives and have been plenty relaxed enough to stay a while. Rather than just leaving the gun I made the stupid decision of struggling with the spear instead of heading to the surface. I'm very comfortable in 60ft, I just simply made a stupid decision. Surprisingly my bottom time has been getting better and better as I've been doing alot of swimming and running...when I took the shot...I was plenty comfortable and could have easily been there a bit longer. I think it all depends on how comfortable I am once I hit the bottom.

Honestly guys...for next time...I think I'm just going to play it safe by having a float and line...as someone mentioned the line gives people an idea where you're at where with a reel your dive buddy could lose you. I know that on multiple occasions when diving deeper with Kris or Speedy one of us would go down in bad vis and surface more than ten feet away from the other dive buddy. From here on out I'm using a float line and float with flag. I've already almost been hit by boats and then this, I'm just trying to be safe. I apologize to my dive buddies who don't like dive floats and float line, but I have to look out for myself and others.

Honestly guys...for next time...I think I'm just going to play it safe by having a float and line...as someone mentioned the line gives people an idea where you're at where with a reel your dive buddy could lose you. I know that on multiple occasions when diving deeper with Kris or Speedy one of us would go down in bad vis and surface more than ten feet away from the other dive buddy. From here on out I'm using a float line and float with flag. I've already almost been hit by boats and then this, I'm just trying to be safe. I apologize to my dive buddies who don't like dive floats and float line, but I have to look out for myself and others.Oscar, you don't have to apologize to anybody. I told you on a number of occasions that the float system is better. Yes it a pain to drag the float and the line causes some drag on the way down but that's a small price to pay for security. You can gather up the line before each dive to eliminate the drag and I find that gathering up the line as I swim helps me relax and facilitates the breath up. Besides there are times where by law you must use a float, and need to as a place to attach the stringer and store fish, if you have to do it sometimes why not all the time. I guarantee you that with my set up there is not a fish likely to appear that I would hesitate shooting. If I was in charge of a boat, knowing how easy it is to lose a diver in 2-3ft seas, I would require every diver to have a float and a flag.

Now all you need is a real float :D

Float lines are always safer than reels because people know where you are. They are just a pain when a bunch of people are diving. 3 people diving with 100ft of line out can be a clusterf*ck. I have a maorisub reel and the way its designed, its impossible for it to lock. It works only by a drag system. There isnt a free spool or lock button.

I am glad you posted this though. We can all learn from your experience. There is no shame in blacking out. I have never blacked out and the more info you provide doesn't hurt.


[quote=Name] What you are quoting [/quote ]<----without the space between the e & ]

Name is the person you are quoting

They are just a pain when a bunch of people are diving. 3 people diving with 100ft of line out can be a clusterf*ck.Ain't that the truth! But do you really want to be diving the same spot in such close proximity to divers other than your partner? Only recently I started doing wrecks where this became an issue. Normally we cover a lot of ground and there is no problem, this was the case at the time Oscar blacked out.

I look at it this way, I have no problem diving alone and when I say this I mean both really alone and/or with my partner 50 meters or more away, as long as I diving within my comfort range and by this I mean only the diving part, not the psychological comfort of knowing there's someone around if I get attacked by a shark. If I'm diving out of my comfort range I want to be watched, then my partner can gather up his line and wait for me finish the dive, then we'll alternate. Or we can use the Cuban system, one gun and one float pulling each other up. Until now lines tangling has not been a serious issue.

I do agree that deep diving is better with a float line. Deep diving is considered different to everyone so its hard to say what depth a float line is good. You dont need a float line for 40 ft or less.

what if the vis is 10 feet?

I do agree that deep diving is better with a float line. Deep diving is considered different to everyone so its hard to say what depth a float line is good. You dont need a float line for 40 ft or less.

My main reason for a float line when I was starting out is to keep the stringer on a float as far away from me as possible just for in case the man in the gray suit came to visit.

This seems like a good time to review the dive flag regulations. Here's a nice summary that I found online, I kept the pertinent points.1. Divers-down flags must be either square or rectangular, red with a white diagonal stripe and have a stiffener to keep it unfurled and visible.

2. Flags must be displayed at all times when divers or snorkelers are in the water, including beach entry dive. The flag must be LOWERED when there are no divers in the water.

3. Flags that are towed on buoys or floats must be at least 12” x 12” in size.

4. On boats, flags are required to be at least 20” x 24” and must be displayed from the highest point of the boat that will present an unobstructed view from all directions.

5. The divers-down flag cannot be displayed in an area that would obstruct boat traffic or creates a hazard to navigation on any river, inlet, or channel, except in case of emergency.

6. Under state law, boaters must make reasonable efforts to stay 300 feet away from divers-down flags in open water and 100 feet away in rivers, inlets, and navigation channels. Boaters approaching flags closer than these distances must slow their boat to idle speed, or the minimum speed necessary to maintain forward motion and maneuverability.

7. Divers and snorkelers must make reasonable efforts to stay within the 300 feet limit of their flag in open water, and within 100 feet in rivers, inlets, and channels.

8. "Buzzing" a dive flag has been added to the description of Florida State Statute 327.331(6), Reckless Operation of a Vessel, which is a 1st degree misdemeanor and punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and/or up to 6 months in jail. Two convictions within 12 months of any dive flag violation will trigger the boater education course requirement.

9. Divers-down flag violations (other than buzzing a dive flag) are now civil violations and subject to a $50 civil penalty.

10. Report any violation of these rules to Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission immediately! If you are in Brevard or Indian River Counties, call 1-800- 342-9620 and 1-800- 432-2046 anywhere south of Indian River County.So to be on the good side of the law you will need to have a flag if you find yourself 100 meters away from the boat, this happens to me often, much more often in shallow waters, should I use a reel and worry about how far away I am from the boat all the time? Theoretically if you stay 100 meters or less from a boat with a dive flag then you don't need a flag and therefore you don't need a float, you will be protected by the boat's flag.. experience has shown that this is BS! Our boat has been buzzed on numerous occasions.

Normally I take laws as far as they are convenient to me but in this case I find them to be dead on. Use a float with a flag for a good number of reasons, the least of which is to not incur a fine.

EDIT - On second thought I don't really care if someone chooses to use a reel. I do however like to see my dive partners with the best equipment possible other than the equipment that depends on personal preference. My dive partners will attest that I've set them up with equipment that is considered a safety necessity.

Dam Oscar!! Bro, I hate to read this kind of shit, however, relieved to hear that you are ok! Frank, you are what a dive buddy should be, You saved his life man!! You guys be safe, oscar, share those drops with your buddy....take your time with your breath ups. Anyways, glad to hear your ok, be safe man.

what if the vis is 10 feet?

in 40 ft? Vis doesnt bother me that much. Im used to diving in shit water. I used to dive in virginia beach (chesapeake bay) and that was 5ft of vis. or less.

Glad to hear that you're okay.. That's scary stuff but also a good eye-opening experience. I know I've learned something from this, so thanks for all the good suggestions everyone has given to help protect themselves. Good job on the save Freek, everyone should have a buddy with them like you. :toast:

Oscar glad to hear you are OK. Scary stuff. Thanks for sharing your experience ..maybe it will keep others more vigilant around their dive buddies. Thanks Freek for being Oscars guardian angel. Keep it safe guys.

It's good that nothig really bad happened. Buddy fishing rocks, doesn't it? It's a lesson people shouldn't learn the hard way.
Regardless of that bad moment we had a fun day, not a lot of fish ,but still a lot of fun. Actually we had to go back early , and couldn't really fish for long due to the deteriorating weather conditions, that's when we decided , "those who could stay till late" to get us a bunch of cold ones and do some underwater drinking and sure thing some on the boat too. Let's hope weather improves for the weekend so we can all do some fishing.

Gonna be a bit of wind till thursday. How long does it take to clear up even if the wind is blowing hard out of the east for 4 days? The fishing should be good though.

I don't know what most guys think or know, but from my experience the conditions stay pretty bad for a while after a storm... :(

as long as the seas are calm it'll be something. Freediving in real bad viz is a pain but it's better sh#t than none at all.

but how bad is bad when talking about the viz?

Glad tohear you are OK #1stnr, Freek you are an:biggrinangelA:

The viz can remain clear even during a storm depending on the wind direction and what is being done w/the runoff if the gates are opened it can way down but can clear in as little as one tide. IMHO the best hunting happens is less than ginn clear water, I always get the feeling the fish can see me from very far away as opposed to hear me and come within range for a look. As long as I can see the tip of my outstreched gun, I'll feel its worth a try. I probably won't chum in those conditions but sometimes it makes for a real thrill when Mr. grey suit comes in and you can only see about 15% of its body at one time, enough to know hes wider than four of you put together, and you know hes just outside of viz (arms length) watching you.
Again, Freek:corkysm60: I salute you

Oscar, we are very glad that you are alright and that ur buddy new exactly what to do to save ur life. Its a great lesson to eveyone out there, that you should always hunt using a buddy system, no matter what depth you are in,,,be safe and happy hunting,,


Freediver1

last year I was forced to go back due to the bad viz, one of them I hit the bottom with the tip of the gun ... imagine how bad it was, but it can chage, lest hope it does soon.

:smnotworthy:

Well, well, well... I go out of town for a few weeks and come back to see SD almost killed himself. Boy, I always miss all the fun.

Anyways, as you guys know I took that FIT class with FREEK and now there's proof to the pudding that our $500 is money well spent. It just might have saved Oscar's life. That's not to say you MUST be trained to be a safe diver, but it definitely puts you in a more respectable frame of mind.

Good thing in all this is I'm sure now everyone will be even more careful on their dives, trained or not. Ironically, Freek asked me to come with him on some training dives because he was worried about safety... and sure enough, a few weeks later it's put to the test. Nice job Freek.

Oscar, as for your dive profile... dont think you cant dive 60ft at those times. You're more then capable of doing it no problem. Dont let it spook you. Just be more efficient breathing-up, smoother on your dive technique, and slower in everything you do.

And remember, if you blackout... you're done for the day - period. Your body is basically in 24hr oxygen-debt and shot to hell.

We need a couple of divers to go out of Haulover/Miami tomorrow Friday Aug 23 on Pantojas boat, $35 per person. pm me if interested.

Are you guys still planning for Saturday?

I don't think I'm going out on my boat on saturday.

That was actually Friday Aug 24 and as of now we're full.

Lucky that you guys are able to go out on Friday. Happy Hunting and I hope you have good Vis

thanx.

Oscar, I may be goin out Sat. or Sun. depending on how tired I am. I'll let you know if we've got room. right now kinda full, but things may change.