Dear Subscriber:

The July-August issue of Gulf Fishery News is now available. Please click on the link,http://www.gulfcouncil.org/Beta/GMFMCWeb/newslet/NEWSLTR-08-07.pdf or visit the Library section of our web site - www.gulfcouncil.org.

Inside this issue:

Reef Fish Amendment 30A Cleared for Public Hearings
Council Bids Farewell to Departing Members
Fisher Sentenced in Illegal Harvest
Letter from Dr. Hogarth
Aquaculture
Grouper Effort Management (Amendment 29)
Gag Grouper Amendment (Amendment 30B)
Survey Seeks Input on Marine Research Needs
Venting Fish: A guide to releasing reef fish with ruptured swimbladders
Winners of the 2007 Great American Cook-off Announced
Fishery Closures


Sincerely,

><((((º>`·._ .·´¯><((((º>`·. _ .·´¯·. ><((((º>



Charlene Ponce

Public Information Officer

Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council

813-348-1630 ext. 229

Charlene.ponce@gulfcouncil.org

September 19th Ft. Myers Fl
Sounds like it's time to start putting some people together and preparing statements for the council. Some of you guys that have more experience with the council please help out here a little.
I attended the last meeting in Naples and learned quite a bit, but could always use some helpfull advice. Seems like this one is THE one we all need to attend for those of us in this area.

Out of town in mid Sept., up in NJ for wedding, and family stuff...I'll be monitoring the info coming out and firing off emails as necessary...hope we can get enough people to Fort Myers from our area. Thanks for posting.

We will be ready. This is for AJ and trigger, not gag and red. NMFS is putting that off for another month or so.

Notice the violation story on the tropical fish collector dude in the Gulf Council news? I think poaching of the tropicals and soft corals is rampant. How about you?

Notice the violation story on the tropical fish collector dude in the Gulf Council news? I think poaching of the tropicals and soft corals is rampant. How about you?

Isn't their some kind of chemical they use to stun the fish. Is that chemical legal? Curious

Isn't their some kind of chemical they use to stun the fish. Is that chemical legal? Curious


I think Quinidine is used in tropical fish collection, it has a high mortallity rate and is bad for the reef, but as far as I know it is legal to use.

They use arsenic ( they puff a little cloud) and also small explosives for collecting...at least that's what I've been told by a big Saltwater dealer

I am a reef tank hobbiest. It is an ongoing problem and worry about buying cyanide caught fish. They tend to live for a period of time (month or less) then die with no outward sign of reason.

I believe this to be only an issue in non US waters. There are many ways of collection this is just one bad practice that I know of.

To Spearfishing Planet: This is not any kind of attack, but simply an information response to comments about the tropical fish industry. Since, as many of you know, I’ve been a collector and involved in the management of this fishery for a long time. I will reference several posts on this thread and make clarifications.

From Denny’s Post:

Notice the violation story on the tropical fish collector dude in the Gulf Council news? I think poaching of the tropicals and soft corals is rampant. How about you?

I read the newsletter Denny mentioned here and was ecstatic about it. As I partially explained in a post on another thread our fish collector organization FMLA has been advocates of responsible management, of not only strict law enforcement but also strong penalties. It has been year after year of frustration that poachers get busted and then get a mild slap on the hand and go right back out and do it again. Not only do we want harsh penalties but also license revocation for repeat offenders. Until recently judges, who don’t fully understand the ramifications of fishery poaching, let people go left and right, even after the FWC officers have devoted lots of manpower to making a bust. To see this guy go to jail and lose all his gear is awesome. I investigated this and discovered that it was one of our members who turned these guys in. As time’s gone by we have managed to get a lot of professional collectors to understand that ratting out the poachers is the justified, responsible thing to do, not a betrayal. We need to protect the resource and so protect our livings and our hobbies.

While I don’t believe “coral” violations are “rampant”, there is no doubt that poaching goes on fairly regularly and is carried out by people who can’t pass up the quick buck selling Ricordia rock. Ricordia is not a true coral but an anemone and it is beautiful and as such there is a market for it, clandestine or otherwise. Ricordia polyps are legally harvested but they must be carefully removed from the substrate since live rock harvest is prohibited. While some legally harvested Ricordia rock is imported from Haiti (what isn’t legal in a place like Haiti?) no wild rock can be taken here. As for true soft corals there is a legal harvest mechanism that allows harvest with the exception of two species – Gorgonia flabellum and Gorgonia ventalina which are the two species of classic sea fan seen in souvenir shops yellow and purple, respectively). The other species have a Federal quota set very low compared to standing stocks due more to convenience at the time it was set than anything else. There was not enough data and no one wanted to fund a study so the industry did not object to the low quota. The state yearly take is open ended until the Federal quota is met. The soft corals represent the largest standing stock of any fishery in the Southeast US, are fast growing and number in the billions of colonies in just the Keys alone as determined by Jaap and Wheaton at the then FMRI in St. Petersburg. In all the fisheries here, the taking of soft corals is the least of our problems we have.

From Spearchucker:

Isn't their some kind of chemical they use to stun the fish. Is that chemical legal? Curious

And from bgBill:

I think Quinaldine is used in tropical fish collection, it has a high mortality rate and is bad for the reef, but as far as I know it is legal to use.

Spearchucker’s question is a valid one but bgBill’s response is absolutely in error (no offense intended here, Bill). Quinaldine neither results in high mortality nor does it kill coral and I’m curious where bgBill got the impression otherwise. Quinaldine, like any other chemical, could conceivably be abused e.g. too strong a mix, cutting it with the wrong mixer and such but it is a very forgiving chemical and one would have to really work hard to screw up it’s use. Quinaldine has been studied and studied to death and when we were developing the Florida Marine Life Rule we were required by the state, the tree huggers and everyone else to produce ample study results. In fact, it was then that we discovered that tree huggers often make their arguments on hype, not research. Not only did we bury them with independent data but personally, I also dropped all my memberships to their organizations. I don’t consider them environmentalists, just sensationalists looking for a fat salary. It betrays true environmentalism. Anyway, we located over one hundred research papers. Using the Internet in it’s early days of the early 1990s we started tracking down research data which lead to experts and institutions all over the planet, even the then Soviet Union. Among others we contacted Scripp’s Institute, the California Academy of Sciences Steinhart Aquarium, the Monterrey Bay Aquarium, Harbor Branch, University of Miami’s Rosenstiel School of Marine and Atmospheric Sciences and numerous other institutions and seasoned researchers. We crawled through a lot of libraries. We also looked into why places like Hawaii banned Quinaldine and in that instance hired a University of Hawaii graduate student to research the history there. What we found in Hawaii was typical of bans we found elsewhere: unrelated or ignorant circumstances.

In Hawaii we found that in the 1950s, before the aquarium trade had really even begun, some college professor had taken some students out to catch specimens for lab work and was using Sodium Cyanide (the same poison used in some third world countries today). Well, the professor and his group dumped a whole bunch of this stuff on a reef and dead tropicals floated up on the beach. They were discovered by some wealthy influential residents who rightfully went ballistic and pushed through a “no chemicals” law. It has never been revisited and so Quinaldine got banned by default. Other places have banned it due to “perception” not study and it has been a constant problem due to the layman believing, as bgBill does, that there is a problem with it. It is very frustrating that people and governments often make laws based on “common sense” when the best regulation may be somewhat different. That’s why we have researchers.

In order to eliminate the chance of people overdosing fish with Quinaldine the state has very precise mixing guidelines that are easy to follow and there has been no problem with it’s use in the 17 years the rule has been in effect.

So the question becomes: Why use it at all? Well, when dealing with bottom dwelling species that tend to hide in the crevasses and crannies it’s most often used more as a chaser than an anesthetic and allows the collector to coax the fish out of the reef instead of trying to dig it out, damaging both the fish and the habitat. We have collected on the same reefs year after year and have had no effect on the corals. A good testimonial to it’s use can be found in the book “The Anemone Fishes” by Gerald R. Allen when he reports on collecting the same specimens over and over again during growth studies. He found that neither the specimens or their anemone were adversely affected. Walt Jaap and Jennifer Wheaton from FMRI did a coral Quinaldine study in the 1970s and determined that the minimal coral damage they caused was not in fact from the Quinaldine but actually from the acetone they were cutting it with. In those days it was a common practice, as crazy as it sounds. In my thirty years of collecting we have always cut it with isopropyl alcohol and seawater to a 2% solution and had no problems at all. This is also now the state guideline. Quinaldine is a very expensive chemical and is used sparingly. In the case of third world countries where they can’t afford Quinaldine the collectors either use the cheap Sodium Cyanide or tear the hell out of the reef to dig the fish out. The Cyanide does kill the vast majority of the fish it touches and as well the coral leaving the collector to gather up what’s still kicking. It’s horrible. In other countries with the “uninformed ban” collectors often use Quinaldine clandestinely because they prefer this to damaging the habitat or the specimen. Finally, Quinaldine is not a “catch all”. It’s application is always in a very small area, in most cases less than one foot by one foot and usually even smaller. To be effective with it as a commercial collector requires experience or else the fish most often gets away. Even the best will tell you that we have to be very selective in the habitat we use it in (low reef, small crannies) because in heavy reef the fish just goes deeper into the reef and it’s a waste of time and money to try to work them there. Collecting fish commercially is not sport, it’s a job and so it is not viewed as any kind of contest. You either can make a living or you can’t. Coupled with the Quinaldine is the extensive tropical fish management plan co-developed between the state and the industry, the most comprehensive in the world – slot size limits, catch limits, licenses, on and on – all seen as a good thing by the professional collectors who worked hard to achieve sound management for the resource. We don’t see Quinaldine being allowed as a bad thing. It is in fact an example of the maturing of at least this piece of fishery management away from knee jerk perceptions of the old days. There will always be detractors but as we have found without exception, none of these individuals know the reality of Quinaldine or have ever studied it. I will be happy to discuss the issue with anyone who wishes to know more and give you bibliographical lists if you request them.

One other point is that for years collector-shippers, trout hatchery people and others would actually ship fish in water with a low concentration of Quinaldine added to keep them calm. Also it was used for surgery on fish. In more recent years the Chemical anesthetic MS-222 has replaced Quinaldine for surgeries and such because, unlike Quinaldine which allows the fish some motion (difficult during surgeries to have the fish flinching) MS-222 completely immobilizes them.

And from threw-er-Back:

They use arsenic ( they puff a little cloud) and also small explosives for collecting...at least that's what I've been told by a big Saltwater dealer

Anything is possible in parts of the Indo-Pacific although I expect it’s Cyanide compounds they are using, not Arsenic. I can only assure everyone that nothing of this type of harvest occurs here. It just plain doesn’t make sense to do so.

Finally, although I’ve taken a hiatus from collecting of late (permanent or not, I’m not sure), I can tell you that among industry participants my reputation for a good and long lived product is second to none. My losses are less than one percent and that is mostly attributed to difficulties encountered while decompressing fish from deep water. None can be attributed to Quinaldine. We have worked out excellent methods of harvest, decompression, handling, disease control etc. Over the years as all of these factors were worked out there was, from the beginning, no problems encountered with Quinaldine use. We’ve been very lucky to have such a good chemical, the only problem now being that it’s so expensive.

There’s more that can be said but I’ve gone on too long as it is. If anyone wants more information they are welcome to contact me, the FWCC staff or other collectors. Thanks for reading.


Bill Parks

And from bgBill:

I think Quinaldine is used in tropical fish collection, it has a high mortality rate and is bad for the reef, but as far as I know it is legal to use.

Spearchucker’s question is a valid one but bgBill’s response is absolutely in error (no offense intended here, Bill). Quinaldine neither results in high mortality nor does it kill coral and I’m curious where bgBill got the impression otherwise.

Bill Parks


Bill,

I was told that by a Tropical Fish Collector from the East Coast of Florida as well as others, but I have not researched it, so I have no studies or reports that say that.

As Denny says, this is about aj and trigs but goes much further. The Florida Mafia, the 4 gulf council members (julie morris, enviro, bob gill, commercial, bill daughdrill, recreational position but votes com, and bill teehan, fwc representative) all voted to make the preferred alternative be to change the allocation of greater amberjack from the 84% recreational 16% commercial to 71% rec 29% com and the triggerfish allocation from 93% rec 7% com to 84% rec 16% com. With the allocation change the best the rec bag limit can be is 1/2 aj per person and 30" size. If the original allocation remained, the rec bag could continue at 1 fish if the capt and crew bag limit goes to zero which would be supported. The FWC meets in st pete next week on wed, thurs, fri at the st pete hilton on the bay. The rec anglers of Florida, all private rec, for-hire, and shore fishermen) need to contact the fwc and stress to the 7 commissioners that they need to get more involved with federal issues on both councils, south atlantic and gulf, so that Florida can drive the councils rather than the councils dictate what FL is to do. Keeping the current allocation of ajs and trigs does not take fish away from the com industry it simply requires that the com industry be constrained to their percentage. If the proposed preferred alt goes forward, the rec anglers will be punished for being conservative and harvesting their original percentage for each species. If we are to stress conservation and only take what we want rather than take what we are given then we should not be punished for not harvesting what we could legally do. This sets a bad precedent for fishery management especially in FL. Grouper and king mackerel will be next. The FWC staff has been given no direction on this from the 7 commissioners and they need to be awaare that the fwc staff is not working to promote rec fishing in FL. Contact the FWC and if you know any of the commissioners please talk to them and explain we need their help and need them to be more active in federal fishery issues.

As Denny says, this is about aj and trigs but goes much further. The Florida Mafia, the 4 gulf council members (julie morris, enviro, bob gill, commercial, bill daughdrill, recreational position but votes com, ) all voted to make the preferred alternative be to change the allocation of greater amberjack from the 84% recreational 16% commercial to 71% rec 29% com ...........

He voted for the commercial sector taking more of the fish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the Fu(k! Thats a phone call Monday and he will need to explain his rationale. 850-814-5468 if anyone else has questions too.

Did Bill answer you, Pat?
He dodged my every attempt at questioning him in San Antonio.
Savefish tells it as it happened.

You all can still email the FWC commissioners.

Hang in for a few, I'll get the points ready.