Yeeha,government mandated healthcare.But it's OK the evil rich will pay for everything.

Yeeha,government mandated healthcare.But it's OK the evil rich will pay for everything.

They just don't get it, it's the bottom of the food chain that looses it's jobs first. If you are not worth "pay plus cost", you get cut that's bottom line business.

When beer goes to 6.00 ea at the bar business goes down and the bar maid goes out. Where is her insurance coming from then?

They just don't get it, it's the bottom of the food chain that looses it's jobs first. If you are not worth "pay plus cost", you get cut that's bottom line business.

When beer goes to 6.00 ea at the bar business goes down and the bar maid goes out. Where is her insurance coming from then?


das rite:toast:

what happens to her then when she becomes ill?

what happens to her then when she becomes ill?

What happens to her when she is ill and unemployed?

What happens to her when she is ill and unemployed?


Since she was First Lady and now a Senator, she has the ultimate golden parachute and a great health plan, so she won't ever have to worry about working or getting medical care.

It is nice when you write the laws, you can vote in any plan that benefits you and your fellow senators, they complain about social security, yet they aren't in the plan, they have their own retirement plan.

I was refering to the hypothetical bar maid who loses her job when beer goes up. Christ its almost 6 bucks a pint up here as it is.

I tought she said we all can get same plan, they have or you want to keep your menage care you could, I tought thats what she said
any how thats not good enough I think I liked Edwards plan better but
oh well I have to live with it I guess:biggrinangelA::biggrinangelA:

Since when is insurance a right! As a American I feel I deserve the right to work and purchase insurance if I think I need it, and I will also decide how much I want according to what I can afford.

So when is my home owners and hurricane insurance going to be covered under the everybody pays the same plan?

Since when is insurance a right! As a American I feel I deserve the right to work and purchase insurance if I think I need it, and I will also decide how much I want according to what I can afford.

So when is my home owners and hurricane insurance going to be covered under the everybody pays the same plan?
Himmm
I never looked at it this way but then again, dont you think it is goverments job look after for its citizen well being? if not why have a goverment? maybe we all can live in peacefully in ANARCHIST system:D:D:D:D
I am trying to understand your point of view, you must be young guy and I do have few young friend, they also say the same thing as you are.
But your point of view will change, like most people, you know with age we do get kind of more consern with healthcare,
yes I pay for my healthcare thats why I am asking for better system.! maybe I could get lot more for my money.
I hope you dont think thats wrong.!
look it this way, rest of the developed nations do have healthcare systems in place, maybe rest of the world is wrong!!!!
If so how come their citizen are not demanding the damped the dammed healthcare?
I am not favor of goverment put its nose in every thing we do as a private citizen. However I do believed goverment should be responsble for its citizens health and education. Now I respect the other sides point of view. Next year November American people will have the last word; and i am very cofident about outcome of upcoming election:smthumbup::smthumbup:

Himmm
I never looked at it this way but then again, dont you think it is goverments job look after for its citizen well being? if not why have a goverment? maybe we all can live in peacefully in ANARCHIST system:D:D:D:D
I am trying to understand your point of view, you must be young guy and I do have few young friend, they also say the same thing as you are.
But your point of view will change, like most people, you know with age we do get kind of more consern with healthcare,
yes I pay for my healthcare thats why I am asking for better system.! maybe I could get lot more for my money.
I hope you dont think thats wrong.!
look it this way, rest of the developed nations do have healthcare systems in place, maybe rest of the world is wrong!!!!
If so how come their citizen are not demanding the damped the dammed healthcare?
I am not favor of goverment put its nose in every thing we do as a private citizen. However I do believed goverment should be responsble for its citizens health and education. Now I respect the other sides point of view. Next year November American people will have the last word; and i am very cofident about outcome of upcoming election:smthumbup::smthumbup:

I love Kaan. he can tell you like it is and you'll still like him.:D

How about a friendly wager on that November thing, Kaan?:bringiton:

you are on my friend

I was refering to the hypothetical bar maid who loses her job when beer goes up. Christ its almost 6 bucks a pint up here as it is.

Pints are a dollar every day of the week at the Ale House.

The problem with government run any thing is it always cost more than privately run and its never as good. We will be waiting for surgery or other health care like they are in Great Brittan and Canada. Innovation will be gone. With out the private sector doing the research and trying to find the next wonder drug or cure our medical community will stagnate.

(Quote)I never looked at it this way but then again, don't you think it is government's job look after for its citizen well being? if not why have a government? maybe we all can live in peacefully in ANARCHIST system

No its not the job of government to take care of its citizens. It's our job to take care of our selves. We are not children we are responsible adults and I for one do not want big brother watching over me. I have worked hard and hopefully can take care of my self. But that may not be possible if I have to care for every low life unemployed crack head that wants the same care as I have without working for it. Socialism fails where ever it is tried no mater what you call it. Without the carrot dangling in front of us we get complacent and the system goes to crap. Innovation comes from the ability to get ahead by working harder. Part of getting ahead is the ability to afford things like health care. The thing is in this country there is no reason you can't find your niche and be able to succeed if you are willing to work for it.:D

The problem with government run any thing is it always cost more than privately run and its never as good. We will be waiting for surgery or other health care like they are in Great Brittan and Canada. Innovation will be gone. With out the private sector doing the research and trying to find the next wonder drug or cure our medical community will stagnate.

(Quote)I never looked at it this way but then again, don't you think it is government's job look after for its citizen well being? if not why have a government? maybe we all can live in peacefully in ANARCHIST system

No its not the job of government to take care of its citizens. It's our job to take care of our selves. We are not children we are responsible adults and I for one do not want big brother watching over me. I have worked hard and hopefully can take care of my self. But that may not be possible if I have to care for every low life unemployed crack head that wants the same care as I have without working for it. Socialism fails where ever it is tried no mater what you call it. Without the carrot dangling in front of us we get complacent and the system goes to crap. Innovation comes from the ability to get ahead by working harder. Part of getting ahead is the ability to afford things like health care. The thing is in this country there is no reason you can't find your niche and be able to succeed if you are willing to work for it.:D

I must concur.:BoomSmilie_anim:

Whattaya say, Kaan, a six pack of your favorite?

Well, we do have this little thing called the constitution, though we mostly don't pay much attention to it any more. Technically, it's the supreme law of the land & spells out the fact that the federal govt only has the powers that are specifically enumerated for it. I've read it, quite a few times but somehow I just can't find the part that grants it the power to take over our health care system & force me to participate in it.

Some of them have said they want the federal govt to make purchasing insurance mandatory. That's another little item that I have been unable to find. So far as I can tell, the federal govt does not have the authority to force me to buy anything that I don't want.

Kaan, your son is about to become a commissioned officer in our armed forces. He will take an oath to defend & uphold the constitution. If he hasn't read it, he might want to so as to know what it says. If you haven't read it, you may like to as well, for the same reason.

Of course, seeing as how far too many people & politicians just ignore the damned thing, maybe reading it isn't such a good idea. Finding out just how badly it's been ignored, trashed & abused might piss a man off.

Well, we do have this little thing called the constitution, though we mostly don't pay much attention to it any more. Technically, it's the supreme law of the land & spells out the fact that the federal govt only has the powers that are specifically enumerated for it. I've read it, quite a few times but somehow I just can't find the part that grants it the power to take over our health care system & force me to participate in it.

Some of them have said they want the federal govt to make purchasing insurance mandatory. That's another little item that I have been unable to find. So far as I can tell, the federal govt does not have the authority to force me to buy anything that I don't want.

Kaan, your son is about to become a commissioned officer in our armed forces. He will take an oath to defend & uphold the constitution. If he hasn't read it, he might want to so as to know what it says. If you haven't read it, you may like to as well, for the same reason.

Of course, seeing as how far too many people & politicians just ignore the damned thing, maybe reading it isn't such a good idea. Finding out just how badly it's been ignored, trashed & abused might piss a man off.

I knew you'd be here shortly!:2gunsfiring_v1::bounce:

Dude, are you in team Dipshit Divers for the flounder tourney?

OK lets seat back and looked again
first off all Roger brother you are on for your favorite beer, now thats out of way let me get back to my point if you guys dont mind. Oh hell if they dont like they dont have to read this right?
proposed healthcare does not force any body to participate in it, it says it is a free country you dont like it stay the one you have, I dont know about you guys but I sure like to have same care Mr. President or Senator Hillary have, be couse my HMO does not add up to shit period!!!!
second is policies are put in place whenever there is a public demand for it. I do believe American public crying to fix this problem. If not I guess Hillary wont be elected symple is that!!!!
and by god we will see that in next November, Now the older gentlmen I am sorry I dont know your name but few days ago I read one of your comment which I beleived you mentioned you are working for Fire Department and within a year you would be retired. If all this are correct I have qestion for you Sir.
arent you working for goverment? if you are and claim you dont like the goverment do things. Why are you working for them?
Arent you using healthcare Fire department given you? If you are why are you complaining? all I am asking is Healthcare equvilant the one goverment give you, Am I not intitle to that? after all I am paying for your healthcare!!!!!!!!
Why couldnt I have; same as yours?

Now I understand you all, I do
people are usally reluctant to new ideas
But beileved me 50 years ago when they put social secutiry in place there was bunch of people opposed to it too. But you know what is funny I have not seing a person refused to get retirement!!!!!!!!!!!
So in time you`ll all get used to it and enjoy it like any other person
Lets not forget something in the heat of debate!!!!!
goverment is the people,for the people, of the people

So if there is a public demand for it
IT WILL HAPPENNNNN
and there is a huge demand from the public thats why every Republican candidate also have a health care program in their agenda as well
BUT IT JUST DONT CUT IT FOR ME
this is me, you think different I totally understand, Public will be ultimate judge in this matter lets wait and see

Dude, are you in team Dipshit Divers for the flounder tourney?

not sure if i'll be here yet. know more in couple weeks.

Kaan, Hillary has not only proposed that you must participate, but that she wants it to be illegal to hire someone who does not have health insurance. Others have alos proposed that it will be mandatory, you will have no choice.

This is a level of intrusiveness into our lives that the federal govt was never designed nor intended to have. The constitution does not provide such powers, but these people can't be bothered to do it right & amend it so as to gain such power. They simply want to force it one us.

Kaan, Hillary has not only proposed that you must participate, but that she wants it to be illegal to hire someone who does not have health insurance. Others have alos proposed that it will be mandatory, you will have no choice.

This is a level of intrusiveness into our lives that the federal govt was never designed nor intended to have. The constitution does not provide such powers, but these people can't be bothered to do it right & amend it so as to gain such power. They simply want to force it one us.

So how do you feel about the individual states mandating health care for all its residents? If I remember civics class those powers not given to the US governmente in the Constitution are relegated to the states.

I have not read the proposed care, all the info I got from Media but my understanding is she just come up with propesed Idea since when propesed Idea is a law of land?
there is a prosess and I say let it takes it course!!!!!
then we will have lot more to talk about it
this is where I stand I pay for my healthcare which I dont mind if I get the care, but I dont..... I only went for sleep study and spend six hours in one shitty house and I got 2000 dollar bill fot it. My so called insurance only pay 350 dollar, Doctor which I havent seing demand the balance of 1650 now do you think if any of your senator has a insurance like that I dont think so and some boddy is telling me hey you could have same thing if you want. All you have to do vote for me!!!!
my vote is her`s.:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:
I dont see other side of the table offering me what they have::pissed::pissed::pissed::pissed:

I would not *like* it, but at least an argument can be made that they have such power. Possibly.

The 10th ammendment doesn't stop with the states, those powers belong to the states or the people.

With 50 states, if each state tackles it we will at least have the benefit of 50 different test labs. We'd have a chance to observe what works, what doesn't & why. We would not be subjecting the entire nation to an experiment. And each state govt is closer to it's constituents & more directly answerable to them. These politicians are far easier replaced than incumbents at the federal level. Further, if your state did something you just couldn't stand, you could always move to a state that you liked better.

I really have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that some politician, who has never been involved in any capacity with running any sort of health care, is somehow to be trusted to know what's right for all of us. Doesn't matter whether we're talking about Hillary, Edwards, Obama, or Bush, Thompson, Giulianni, Romney or anyone else.

NONE of these people have ever had to strike a balance sheet for a doctors practise, or make the budget for a hospital, or manage a large insurance company, etc.

People bitch & moan about HMO's. Well, whatcha think a govt run health care system is going to be? The ultimate HMO, no?

You know
I have way too many people around me thinking same way, and I understand hey I even taken a chace too be come not so well loved sons of Alabama but my mind is made. I need a better health care Period...........
and I want that not only for me I want it for every soul living in this country
I just dont want to people worry about hospital bills, or trying to have a choise beetwen their pills or the bread in the table. or crossed to Tijuana Mexico to get their tooth to get fixed, Do you know How many people crossing the border not in to US but in to Mexico each day to get medical care? I know. You know I used to live in California and I see it. It is not a urban legend happening every day. Yet medical industries profits are ten times greater then 1993 when they try this thing and medical industries run very very succsessfull caimpaign to de railed with the help they got from Republicans.now after fourteen years they are making ten times more but my insurance ten times worse. You know I used to work for very very big corp. even them come to point that they could not afford to have good health care for their employees, just becouse rising healthcare coast....
You know as they say
fooled me once shame on you
fooled me twice shame on me


or
you can`t fool all the people, all the time

Could it be you just chose a poor healthcare plan? I have HMO insurance and am very happy with it price and benefit wise. Maybe you just need to shop around a bit more.

The problem with this country is everyone feels entitled to the same privileges whether they work for it or not. I have no problem with my tax dollars helping support a person who through accident can no longer work. But I am getting tired of the little rapper boy on the corner wearing gold chains while his momma is at home buying some shrimp with the state supplied food stamps.

I say start getting rid of the gov handouts and you will see a much better return on your taxes.

Could it be you just chose a poor healthcare plan? I have HMO insurance and am very happy with it price and benefit wise. Maybe you just need to shop around a bit more.

The problem with this country is everyone feels entitled to the same privileges whether they work for it or not. I have no problem with my tax dollars helping support a person who through accident can no longer work. But I am getting tired of the little rapper boy on the corner wearing gold chains while his momma is at home buying some shrimp with the state supplied food stamps.

I say start getting rid of the gov handouts and you will see a much better return on your taxes.
Abuse of system shall be punished to severiest point, I am with you on that
but my argument not over the system being abused by somebody.
A lot deeper then that.you Know how much is fair to pay for your healthcare or may be we should let the insurance industries rape all of us. It seems thats what they are doing lately, if its not then you need to educate me why if you are on group policies yout insurance say 400 a month. but for same covarage they would charge you 1000 a month isnt this highway robbery?
You know every state have a insurance regulations, yet no body cant stop them? If we all looking to who is receiving how mush donation from those people may be we could see little bit better. coast of healthcare in US, many many times more that any where else on this earth. which come to point companies can not offer healthcare to their employees anymore. If they dont and those people get ill and they could not afford it, who do you think will pay those bill? We will. if you looked the projected growt of different industries healthcare is number one so what is this mean? We will pay moreeeeee
you have insurance or not we will all pay it with our tax dollars, only winner in this game is Insurance companies no one else. if we dont do something about this it will bankrupt the Goverment, how would you justified to stay in hospital one night and get 5000-6000 bill for it. who could affort such a expence? unless your dady has few millions in the bank.

Why would anyone who thinks that government is out to screw them think that private business, especially the insurance industry would do no less. Do any of you think that the insurance industry is looking out for your best interest. They both suck.

Why would anyone who thinks that government is out to screw them think that private business, especially the insurance industry would do no less. Do any of you think that the insurance industry is looking out for your best interest. They both suck.

Nope, they both suck but are differences. If gov. gets their hands in it, you never get them out.

At least in the private sector, eventhough it may take a while, it can be changed. Maybe by changing to a new, more hungary upstart or there is always an opportunity to build relatinships with thise who can help. Or, one could even get into the business himself, if he really felt that strongly.:absolut:

Nope, they both suck but are differences. If gov. gets their hands in it, you never get them out.

At least in the private sector, eventhough it may take a while, it can be changed. Maybe by changing to a new, more hungary upstart or there is always an opportunity to build relatinships with thise who can help. Or, one could even get into the business himself, if he really felt that strongly.:absolut:
oh Thank you god
keep going guys thank god I canbe out of the damm Thread:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bou nce:

In this proposal it sounds like the worst of both worlds the gov. forces people to carry insurance giving liscense to steal for insurance companies

In this proposal it sounds like the worst of both worlds the gov. forces people to carry insurance giving liscense to steal for insurance companies

Yeah, as if they don't already hold that license. No offense to agents/brokers/underwriters. My two best friends are:
agent
broker and another good friend is an underwriter.

And I still get screwed on ins. They have learned to take advantage of the system, which is what free enterprise is all about. So I tell them what they need to know and not what they don't need to know. Then go have a few.:whistle:

TN, back in the 90's, decided that they could do it better than medicare so they got federal approval to opt out, do it themselves & they set up TennCare.

It damn near bankrupted the state & had to be massively worked over. I've lost track of it now & can't even give you the slightest idea of how it works. But every last example of the worst you can expect of a state run entitlement program happened. People who could dropped the insurance they were paying for & got on tenncare, bc it was 'free' to them. Massive cost over runs, beaurocracy, etc etc etc.

So whatever they ended up doing differently, there is a real world system that you could go & examine a period of years of abject failure in order to at least make some valid determinations of what not to do.

More recently, Romney pushed for & got state laws as governor to change how health care is handled there. It hasn't been very long, my guess is that it's too soon to proclaim it either a success or failure & won't be surprised if it still needs changes, even if it's going well to start with. Time has a way of revealing unknown or unpredicted flaws.

Those are 2 states we can now look at & see what's going on. There are obviously a lot of problems with our health care as it is now. There isn't any one single cause, nor is there any one simple fix. IMO, handing it over to the govt to do it is not going to be the fix that so many people think they want. Won't surprise me if we don't get stuck with it eventually though, then we too will get to enjoy dying while on a waiting list, or seeing a treatable cancer become untreatable while we're on the list, all the types of problems that we see when we look at what happens in other countries.

There are a lot of things that could be done to help make it more affordable, but I don't really expect any of them to be done either. The people who are pushing for universal coverage want just that & nothing else. It isn't about health care, it's about who controls it & they want that to be the govt. So anything that may mean improvements without the govt taking it over is not anything they'll let happen, if they can stop it.

You know as they say
fooled me once shame on you
fooled me twice shame on me


or
you can`t fool all the people, all the time

NO, No, no....the saying goes like this...
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/youtube/bushfoolme.htm

Gotta love ole GW:eek:

NO, No, no....the saying goes like this...
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/youtube/bushfoolme.htm

now thats a good one:circle::circle:

Still, SOMEBODY has to pay for all this. If it is a corporation or business, either prices are going up, or jobs are going to be outsourced. If you go after the "rich" you may just be surprised to find you fall within the definition of "rich." Hillary says you'll get tax credits to pay for the insurance. If you're a poor working man, you not paying enough taxes now to make that work. The overwhelming majority of Americans have health insurance now. This remains just another redistribution of wealth plan to screw those who work.

(Bah! Humbug! Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?)

Still, SOMEBODY has to pay for all this. If it is a corporation or business, either prices are going up, or jobs are going to be outsourced. If you go after the "rich" you may just be surprised to find you fall within the definition of "rich." Hillary says you'll get tax credits to pay for the insurance. If you're a poor working man, you not paying enough taxes now to make that work. The overwhelming majority of Americans have health insurance now. This remains just another redistribution of wealth plan to screw those who work.

(Bah! Humbug! Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?)

47 million Americans are uninsured. Thats not a majority but it is a disgrace for the richest nation to have this many uninsured.

I wasn't aware that "% of population insured" was the measure of a country. Using that stat., looks like Cuba comes in number 1. Everybody down there has government health care. 'Course... to make it all work even as pathetically as it does...you first have to give everything to the government..no private property, then to make sure nobody "opts out" you gotta have "neighborhood watchers", an effective secret police system, and a willingness to throw anyone who dispute YOUR "paradise" into a re-education camp. As delightful as it all sounds...there remains a nest of recalcitrant, non-politically correct citizens down there who find the courage to cross the Florida Straits in rickety vessels to GET HERE. Don't remember the last time I heard of 10 or 15 families loading up in Key West and trying to make it to Castro's paradise for that free healthcare.

47 million Americans are uninsured. Thats not a majority but it is a disgrace for the richest nation to have this many uninsured.

12-20 million are illegal aliens, another 10-12 Million are people who woiuld be covered by Medicaid if they applied, then there are those that choose not to pay for medical insurance.

Why is there suh a push to give citizenship and benefits like insurance social security, welfare etc. to a group of people who do not belong here?

Bret,as much as liberals decry God and/or religion they truly do not believe in a strictly Darwinian world.
You see they believe that they are the highest organization of intelligence in the universe.
They believe in themselves and their ideas so much that they are willing to steal money from you under threat of prison(which only people who disagree with them should be in) and guns(which of course no one should have but their troops)in order to implement this new order.

You guys seemed to be getting worked up over a lot of nothing. She is nothing but a Senator from NY, even if she were to be elected the odds of any meaningful reform in our healthcare system being passed is slight, there is to much money involved for the Congress to suddenly develop a spine and butt heads with the insurance and Pharmacuetical industry. If any reform on healthcare will ever develop odds are you will see it begin on the state level just like welfare reform did.

You guys seemed to be getting worked up over a lot of nothing. She is nothing but a Senator from NY, even if she were to be elected the odds of any meaningful reform in our healthcare system being passed is slight, there is to much money involved for the Congress to suddenly develop a spine and butt heads with the insurance and Pharmacuetical industry. If any reform on healthcare will ever develop odds are you will see it begin on the state level just like welfare reform did.

Word

I wasn't aware that "% of population insured" was the measure of a country. Using that stat., looks like Cuba comes in number 1. Everybody down there has government health care. 'Course... to make it all work even as pathetically as it does...you first have to give everything to the government..no private property, then to make sure nobody "opts out" you gotta have "neighborhood watchers", an effective secret police system, and a willingness to throw anyone who dispute YOUR "paradise" into a re-education camp. As delightful as it all sounds...there remains a nest of recalcitrant, non-politically correct citizens down there who find the courage to cross the Florida Straits in rickety vessels to GET HERE. Don't remember the last time I heard of 10 or 15 families loading up in Key West and trying to make it to Castro's paradise for that free healthcare.

Cuba is communist goverment; all property owned by state is not becouse healthcare coast; thats what communism is. So that is not the argument here all other devoloped nation do have healthcare system, and they all have freedom to owned anything they want, Hillarry did not propesed to change the country to Communism, if offering affordable healthcare makes her communist; I would say all republican candidates are communist too; they all have some healthcare plan too. Arguing your point is one thing accusing of others for something they are not; its not cool
if you wanna make a point you should not hit beloved the belt just to score a point