Alright, Im wanting to pick up a commerical muzzle for my 48" sea hornet. Only problem is no one stocks them and the manufacture will not sell directly to the public. I spoke with Ray Odor yesterday and he said he could order them but was unsure of the price. I also called the SlinginSteel crew and told me it is best to specially order a gun with this part pre installed. Its not just a slip on modification and requires some work to finish.

Basically im wondering where can I get one soon? How Much are they? and what is involved with putting one on?

I haven't tried to install one myself but I am pretty sure you have to cut sections out of the muzzle in order to install it.

Are you going to be freeshafting or line shafting with it? Neptonic systems makes a replacement open muzzle stock that helps out for freediving.

I haven't tried to install one myself but I am pretty sure you have to cut sections out of the muzzle in order to install it.

Are you going to be freeshafting or line shafting with it? Neptonic systems makes a replacement open muzzle stock that helps out for freediving.

Has anyone ever used that stock from neptonic systems? It seems like a good idea but for $150 you could just buy an inexpensive euro gun.

call me @scuba quest i can get you one....

654-8027

Just spoke to a really nice lady at Aquatic Obsessions...

Kevin and his crew are in the middle of a move and he is currently not installing any of his muzzles on guns. He would sell me a muzzle but DOES NOT recommend putting in on myself. Also the thing costs $130!!!! so im thinking I will just wait till I upgrade to a bigger gun which will prolly be a Rhine 60" and just order it with the muzzle installed.

yay...

call me @scuba quest i can get you one....

Im making a trip to your area this weekend and im planning on stopping in. We can talk then...But I think im just gonna hold off till Im ready for my next bigger gun...

I need to pick up a couple freeshafts and a spare shaft holder deal.

Im making a trip to your area this weekend and im planning on stopping in. We can talk then...But I think im just gonna hold off till Im ready for my next bigger gun...

I need to pick up a couple freeshafts and a spare shaft holder deal.

no problem buddy ill take care of you the best i can when it comes time for you to get a new gun...

im thinking I will just wait till I upgrade to a bigger gun which will prolly be a Rhine 60" and just order it with the muzzle installed.


Check with Kevin but if I'm not mistaken, he doesn't install commercial muzzles on Rhino coated guns anymore.

Check with Kevin but if I'm not mistaken, he doesn't install commercial muzzles on Rhino coated guns anymore.

He does, but he wont installed them on a previously owned gun. you have to order the gun specially with the muzzle installed. For him to install the muzzle on the Rhine guns he has to strip the coating which is a big hassle cause that stuff is on there!!!

What are the advantages of this commercial muzzle?

What are the advantages of this commercial muzzle?

more consistent shots, keeps the spear straight for a longer time while its in the gun being fired.

Right side of the page in the box it tells some things aabout it.
http://www.slinginsteel.com/commercial.html#muzzle

The commercial muzzles are great once you learn to shoot it! you will have to learn a new style of shooting. From what I have been told and learned from personal experience about the commercial muzzle is that most guns you can just point and shoot but with commercial muzzle you have to aim more. Before I got a commercial gun I could just point and shoot and hit my target 99% of the time.When I first got my 52" Commercial Rhino I was missing shots left and right(most of the missed shots were too high), now I rarely miss a target, no BS. Bill at Aquatic taught me the correct way to aim that type of muzzle and it really works. just my 2 cents! I would definitely wait till your ready for a new gun and get it all in one. Kevin will have the best info for you though.

The commercial muzzles are great once you learn to shoot it! you will have to learn a new style of shooting. From what I have been told and learned from personal experience about the commercial muzzle is that most guns you can just point and shoot but with commercial muzzle you have to aim more. Before I got a commercial gun I could just point and shoot and hit my target 99% of the time.When I first got my 52" Commercial Rhino I was missing shots left and right(most of the missed shots were too high), now I rarely miss a target, no BS. Bill at Aquatic taught me the correct way to aim that type of muzzle and it really works. just my 2 cents! I would definitely wait till your ready for a new gun and get it all in one. Kevin will have the best info for you though.

u gonna keep it to urself?:confused::redcard::D

The commercial muzzles are great once you learn to shoot it! you will have to learn a new style of shooting. From what I have been told and learned from personal experience about the commercial muzzle is that most guns you can just point and shoot but with commercial muzzle you have to aim more. Before I got a commercial gun I could just point and shoot and hit my target 99% of the time.When I first got my 52" Commercial Rhino I was missing shots left and right(most of the missed shots were too high), now I rarely miss a target, no BS. Bill at Aquatic taught me the correct way to aim that type of muzzle and it really works. just my 2 cents! I would definitely wait till your ready for a new gun and get it all in one. Kevin will have the best info for you though.

If you were only missing 1 out of 100 shots, what exactly is the benefit of a commercial muzzle?

One thing we noticed is: I your shaft is the least bit bent it throws your shot off more than with an open muzzle.
If you are going to install one yourself you better have some wood working skills.

So in other words, what is the difference that favors the commercial muzzle?

It would be nice if you are going to quote me, to use all of my comments, not just part of it.

This is the entire comment I made "If you were only missing 1 out of 100 shots, what exactly is the benefit of a commercial muzzle?"
I prefer the open muzzle that Biller makes (My favorite gun is the Deathstick), I can not see the benefit of a commercial muzzle, but there are a lot of spearfishermen that shoot a lot better than me that think they are great, but there are also quite a few newbies who think that buying a commercial gun will make them a world class shooter.

The bottom line is it isn't the gun, it is the guy doing the shooting and I think more importantly having the numbers and the knowledge to know where the fish are, it doesn't matter how good of a shot you are, how good your equipment is, if there are no fish to shoot, it doesn't matter what kind of gun you have.

The real benefit I see with the commerical muzzle is 2 things:

1) loading the freeshaft from the rear of the muzzle (much quicker)
2) independent band adjustment

If you are not freeshafting and taking are not taking reasonably close range shots, this is not the muzzle you want.

The commercial muzzles are great once you learn to shoot it! you will have to learn a new style of shooting. From what I have been told and learned from personal experience about the commercial muzzle is that most guns you can just point and shoot but with commercial muzzle you have to aim more. Before I got a commercial gun I could just point and shoot and hit my target 99% of the time.When I first got my 52" Commercial Rhino I was missing shots left and right(most of the missed shots were too high), now I rarely miss a target, no BS. Bill at Aquatic taught me the correct way to aim that type of muzzle and it really works. just my 2 cents! I would definitely wait till your ready for a new gun and get it all in one. Kevin will have the best info for you though.

So what did Hardman say?

I looked at installing one on my Ray Gun but not for $130.00

I have one, I think the greatest benefit of the muzzle is the consitent shot placement. I think it will shoot in the same place more often than the open biller muzzle. As far as back-loading the muzzle, I do it with the commercial muzzle. You can also do it with the biller open muzzle and I think with Ray's shafts, I can do it with the sea hornet muzzle as well.
I think the commercial muzzle also lessens the likelyhood of shaft-whipping from over-powering the gun. That only works to an extent though with an open track gun.
I agree with Bret, that it's not gonna make you a better shooter all by itself. But overtime of using it, you develop your shooting skills faster because the gun will shoot in the same place nearly every time. After that, it's you aiming and like Bret said, the fish gotta be there...

It would be nice if you are going to quote me, to use all of my comments, not just part of it.

This is the entire comment I made "If you were only missing 1 out of 100 shots, what exactly is the benefit of a commercial muzzle?"
I prefer the open muzzle that Biller makes (My favorite gun is the Deathstick), I can not see the benefit of a commercial muzzle, but there are a lot of spearfishermen that shoot a lot better than me that think they are great, but there are also quite a few newbies who think that buying a commercial gun will make them a world class shooter.

The bottom line is it isn't the gun, it is the guy doing the shooting and I think more importantly having the numbers and the knowledge to know where the fish are, it doesn't matter how good of a shot you are, how good your equipment is, if there are no fish to shoot, it doesn't matter what kind of gun you have.

I have to disagree bill. If you have good numbers and the fish are skittish, you won't hit any if you can't shoot. We've been hitting the gags lately 15-20 feet away. Poor aim just won't do it when the fish are out a ways.
My brother started with a 48 Biller, and he got 1/10nth the fish he gets now with his SS commercial 54" gun. He swears by it as much more accurate. He shot a gag almost 20 feet away running straight away from him, hit it in the ass and spined it dead. We have also greatly improved out shot placement for stoning the fish since switching to the commercial guns. Makes lost fish less likely. And I still use my 48" SS commercial teak. Love it.
Now, I haven't tried a deathstick, but I started with several Billers. The shaft definitely comes out of that muzzle more randomly and then drops quicker on longer shots. Just my experience.
I would like to try an enclosed track gun to see if that is more consistent than my SS. And I still reload from the end, seems fast enough after stringing the fish, or god forbid missing a shot.
My recommendation for the newbies, PM Kevin/Spear One to find out where your closest dealer is and who to contact. Then just order a SS Commercial 52" gun with at least one spare shaft holder( I use 2) with one of the 2 line shaft systems if you do any wreck/cave hunting. I have cut mine off completely, use just one band on the gun, and have practiced shooting mangoes til I have become quite accurate and have learned to take shots out to 15 feet or so. I got several extra freeshafts form Ray with the single 3inch flopper on them, and off you go.
Whatever gun you get, learn to freeshaft. You'll really have more fun. And go to Kevin"s seminar if you haven't been yet. He'll teach you the basics of freeshafting, and he has the guns there to look at.
Just my 2 cents.
Charlie:2gunsfiring_v1:

I switched to the comm muzzle a couple years ago and the biggest difference I noticed is the shot placement on the longer shots. I hate to take those hailmary shots but my 60'' comm is a lazerbeam, I would like to try out an enclosed track to compare its accuracy but they look like they would take longer to reload.

My personal experience is that until you go to an enclosed track gun they all shoot about the same. I have shot my OLD 52" Sea Hornets in a pool against a commercial 52 and a Riffe and they all where very close to the same. I think it comes down to what you are used to shooting and comfortable with. When you get a combo together that works for you stick with it and have fun. I did notice a BIG difference when I stepped up to my 55" Mid-handle deathstick. The range is sick and dead accurate. One thing I noticed imidiatly is that when I lined up on a fish that I thought was 6ft away and pulled the trigger it ended up being MUCH closer than it looked. I would end up with a dead fish and the shaft still in the end of the track.

Just my 2 cents.

anyone got some video of this Shaft-whip in action???

I got a possibility right now for purchasing a 54" Rhino that is used for a good price. Im just debating as to where I want to go right now. My 48 works well so far but on my last trip I learned alot from Travis, Gunny and Tony. next time I go out im gonna be prepared with freeshafts. and hopefully some better aim.

I have to disagree bill. If you have good numbers and the fish are skittish, you won't hit any if you can't shoot. We've been hitting the gags lately 15-20 feet away. Poor aim just won't do it when the fish are out a ways.
My brother started with a 48 Biller, and he got 1/10nth the fish he gets now with his SS commercial 54" gun. He swears by it as much more accurate. He shot a gag almost 20 feet away running straight away from him, hit it in the ass and spined it dead. We have also greatly improved out shot placement for stoning the fish since switching to the commercial guns. Makes lost fish less likely. And I still use my 48" SS commercial teak. Love it.
Now, I haven't tried a deathstick, but I started with several Billers. The shaft definitely comes out of that muzzle more randomly and then drops quicker on longer shots. Just my experience.
I would like to try an enclosed track gun to see if that is more consistent than my SS. And I still reload from the end, seems fast enough after stringing the fish, or god forbid missing a shot.
My recommendation for the newbies, PM Kevin/Spear One to find out where your closest dealer is and who to contact. Then just order a SS Commercial 52" gun with at least one spare shaft holder( I use 2) with one of the 2 line shaft systems if you do any wreck/cave hunting. I have cut mine off completely, use just one band on the gun, and have practiced shooting mangoes til I have become quite accurate and have learned to take shots out to 15 feet or so. I got several extra freeshafts form Ray with the single 3inch flopper on them, and off you go.
Whatever gun you get, learn to freeshaft. You'll really have more fun. And go to Kevin"s seminar if you haven't been yet. He'll teach you the basics of freeshafting, and he has the guns there to look at.
Just my 2 cents.
Charlie:2gunsfiring_v1:


I took the line setup off of my Riffe C2X, and as long as the bands are loaded the shaft does not move. I have shot the Commercial type guns that Kevin makes and my Riffe ( for me anyways) is the weapon of choice. 15-20' it is very accurate. Does anybody know where you can get a good tungston magnet? I have thought about counter sinking one up towards the muzzle to provide some holding power while unbanded

can someone please post some close-up pictures of their commercial muzzle?

The real benefit I see with the commerical muzzle is 2 things:

1) loading the freeshaft from the rear of the muzzle (much quicker)
2) independent band adjustment

If you are not freeshafting and taking are not taking reasonably close range shots, this is not the muzzle you want.

I agree with this....i think it helps with the accuracy alot at range. loading the freeshafts from the rear is a definite plus, but you can't do this with Kevin's shafts cause the pin that holds the flopper is too long to slide through. Ray Odor's work great though.

I got a possibility right now for purchasing a 54" Rhino that is used for a good price. Im just debating as to where I want to go right now. My 48 works well so far but on my last trip I learned alot from Travis, Gunny and Tony. next time I go out im gonna be prepared with freeshafts. and hopefully some better aim.

If you are in a position to purchase that gun do it now....you won't regret it. More power, accuracy, and distance than your 48. Save the 48 for the good vis winter Bay days. :thumbup:

getting one is not the hard part. But to install one is not a simple slip on. I would think about sinding it in and let them profesionaly instal the muzzel. Then you know it is right and will shoot strait. Also talk to some guys about how to bang you gun. After the install to much power will make it very inconsistant. But if the gun is set up right you will be deadly.:BoomSmilie_anim:

Also talk to some guys about how to bang you gun.

Hmm, I'd definitely say through the muzzle. But make sure you take the shaft out first...

Hmm, I'd definitely say through the muzzle. But make sure you take the shaft out first...


:redcard::smthumbup:

here are a few pixs of my camo 52" ss gun.......


i love my new gun ....i have a 52 custom and a 52 both have commerical muzzle

I think Kevin's customer service is next to none. He has been johnny on the spot anytime i have needed his assistance.:smnotworthy:

He has answered many questions re: guns and returned phone calls almost immediately. :smnotworthy: I'm sure he would be happy to install the part on you gun when his free time is more available


While I know several guy who swear buy it, It is my personal belief that the commercial muzzle is a waist of money. I have used one on several occasions and have ended up extremely frustrated with the lack of results.

Why do I need to be taught how to shoot gun with a commercial muzzle when i can point and shoot my regular sea hornet/ biller with out any training and be a successful hunter.

In addition why spend that kind of money on commercial hornet when you could get somthing more custom like a wong instead?

Point being it not always the gun but the experiance of the shooter that matters. Trigger time is what tends to make a shooter better

[B]

Why do I need to be taught how to shoot gun with a commercial muzzle when i can point and shoot my regular sea hornet/ biller with out any training and be a successful hunter.

In addition why spend that kind of money on commercial hornet when you could get somthing more custom like a wong instead?

Point being it not always the gun but the experiance of the shooter that matters. Trigger time is what tends to make a shooter better

I don't understand where this gun requires any special training.....there are no tricks to it.....it's a straight shooting gun.....point.....shoot.

Also there is a huge price difference in this and a wong.....getting a wong that fires a 5/16th shaft in a solid wood gun will put you up there in the frame of a MG special which is about 400 dollars more then a 52" rhino classic with a commercial muzzle. Worth every penny from what my buddies tell me, but $400 puts a squeeze on normal sized pockets.

On the commercial guns, is it the muzzle that plays the biggest part in increased accuracy or the one piece stock? I'm just wondering if the I should just get a classic with a commercial muzzle installed or go with the actual commercial gun.

On the commercial guns, is it the muzzle that plays the biggest part in increased accuracy or the one piece stock? I'm just wondering if the I should just get a classic with a commercial muzzle installed or go with the actual commercial gun.

out of the two guns i think your biggest consideration would be if you plan to line shaft at all......the full commercial is for someone who freeshafts 99% of the time, it features a short line system which hangs below the gun, made for pulling a fish out from under a ledge or out of a wreck. If you do much lineshafting you'd definitely want the classic line system.

also i want to clear one thing up really quick....it seems like some people think the commercial muzzle is an aftermarket part (in terms of the classic) which they have to buy separately and have installed on the classic gun (or settle for a full commercial), which can be done however is not necessary. Kevin manufactures a rhino classic with a commercial muzzle installed, all of these also come with spare shaft holders, this gun also comes in multiple colors of laminates if you aren't a fan of the rhino liner. Most of the shops don't have these in inventory. If anyone needs help finding one of these let me know, but i dont work for any shop so i'm not going to do any open advertising for the ones who do have these in stock.

Nothing will ever replace trigger time.

Nothing will ever replace trigger time.

Definately agreed.

I have a 52" Commercial and didn't like it at first because I wasn't accurate with it. I also was lineshafting (East Coast = High Current). Kevin will even tell you that the gun was not designed for lineshafting.

I recently had a few low current days and took off the leash and I am a HUGE fan. The range and accuracy are amazing.

I just got a brand new 55" Wong Semi-Enclosed Hybrid and paid a good amount for it; however, in the summer when the currents are low, I will still take my SS Commercial out in the boat to do some freeshafting.

What are the advantages of this commercial muzzle?It is my personal belief that the commercial muzzle is a waist of money.Objective accomplished.

Ive always been believer of supporting the local guy who supports the local guy/shops/market..

If ya gonna buy a wong or a rifffe or some other spear mag gun because you think it will make you a better shot or people in cali are shooting it or it shoots straighter then you have more issues then purchasing the right equipment that will make you a better shot .


Why don't we/people spend the money that support the local shops/tourneys etc..

I for one have never seen a wong gun on a local spearfishing tournament prize table but i sure as hell have seen people walking away with alot of SS guns and hornets and items from spearfishing specialties....

yea yea this sounds like a add for kevin shop but i have never had a email not replied to when i had a question and or part needed if one of the local shops was out...

I don't understand where this gun requires any special training.....there are no tricks to it.....it's a straight shooting gun.....point.....shoot.

Also there is a huge price difference in this and a wong.....getting a wong that fires a 5/16th shaft in a solid wood gun will put you up there in the frame of a MG special which is about 400 dollars more then a 52" rhino classic with a commercial muzzle. Worth every penny from what my buddies tell me, but $400 puts a squeeze on normal sized pockets.

Roughly 400 for 2 piece or 600 for a one piece. Either way IMHO you better off putting you money into dive computer or a higher end gun or other dive equipment.
Also have considered the cost of dressing the gun up extra shafts and holders?


I don't understand where this gun requires any special training.....there are no tricks to it.....it's a straight shooting gun.....point.....shoot.

the below comment is a good example of what im referring to

The commercial muzzles are great once you learn to shoot it! you will have to learn a new style of shooting. From what I have been told and learned from personal experience about the commercial muzzle is that most guns you can just point and shoot but with commercial muzzle you have to aim more. Before I got a commercial gun I could just point and shoot and hit my target 99% of the time.When I first got my 52" Commercial Rhino I was missing shots left and right(most of the missed shots were too high), now I rarely miss a target, no BS. Bill at Aquatic taught me the correct way to aim that type of muzzle and it really works. just my 2 cents! I would definitely wait till your ready for a new gun and get it all in one. Kevin will have the best info for you though.


Does this mean you don't have any first hand experience with the gun yourself? Are you just regurgitating your friends comments?

Worth every penny from what my buddies tell me, but $400 puts a squeeze on normal sized pockets.

out of the two guns i think your biggest consideration would be if you plan to line shaft at all......the full commercial is for someone who freeshafts 99% of the time, it features a short line system which hangs below the gun, made for pulling a fish out from under a ledge or out of a wreck. If you do much lineshafting you'd definitely want the classic line system.

also i want to clear one thing up really quick....it seems like some people think the commercial muzzle is an aftermarket part (in terms of the classic) which they have to buy separately and have installed on the classic gun (or settle for a full commercial), which can be done however is not necessary. Kevin manufactures a rhino classic with a commercial muzzle installed, all of these also come with spare shaft holders, this gun also comes in multiple colors of laminates if you aren't a fan of the rhino liner. Most of the shops don't have these in inventory. If anyone needs help finding one of these let me know, but i dont work for any shop so i'm not going to do any open advertising for the ones who do have these in stock.

what he said.

I have a 48' Classic with Commercial muzzle and it's the shizznit. I have a 54 biller and there is some difference but it's not drastic.

Here's the deal IMO. I feel the commercial muzzle gives you a more consistent repeatable shot. What I mean by that is, (like Kevin says) I can consistently put my shaft into an area about the size of a silver dollar from 8-10 feet (FROM THE TIP OF THE GUN, NOT MY BODY). With my 54 biller, I can consistently put a shaft from the same distance in an area about the size of a baseball. That my friends, translates into the difference between alot of stoned and unstoned fish.

I shoot alot in the pool with my friends/kid so that's how I know this. I have a sweet target made out of plywood and lead weights with a fish painted on it.

All that said, I know a bunch if guys that use rickety JBL parts on a curtain rod with no loading butt and kill more fish than me regularly. Time underwater is the most important thing. That's been said here a few times already.

Wicked if I was you dude, I would seriously save that money and go diving some more. I wax the fish with my 48' gun and don't beleive FOR A SECOND that by purchasing a gun that is 4-6 inches longer that you are going to have this tremendous performance increase, that's bullshit. You may be able to shoot a foot or two farther and maintain your accuracy. It is my experience that performance upgrades in spearfishing are gained in small increments, not in giant leaps. The one piece wood stock is a small strength and durability upgrade, longer stock = a small range upgrade, commercial muzzle = small accuracy upgrade. Now all these upgrades cost around or over 100$ but I'm telling you dude, you are NOT getting 100$ in performance increase.

The gun you have now is a great VALUE, you should keep learning on it, rag it out and then after you know your ass from a hole in the wall, then go drop 500ish bucks on a badass gun. The time for that purchase is not now in your spearfishing 'career' or 'life' or whatever. You don't even really know what you want or why you want it. Save your money, buy some shafts and go diving for a year, then make this purchase. You will be much wiser and more informed. I wish somebody would've told me that when I got into spearing and I'd of never bought several guns that I've now sold or gotten rid of.

Peace,
Tommy

Ive always been believer of supporting the local guy who supports the local guy/shops/market..

If ya gonna buy a wong or a rifffe or some other spear mag gun because you think it will make you a better shot or people in cali are shooting it or it shoots straighter then you have more issues then purchasing the right equipment that will make you a better shot .


Why don't we/people spend the money that support the local shops/tourneys etc..

I for one have never seen a wong gun on a local spearfishing tournament prize table but i sure as hell have seen people walking away with alot of SS guns and hornets and items from spearfishing specialties....

yea yea this sounds like a add for kevin shop but i have never had a email not replied to when i had a question and or part needed if one of the local shops was out...

that does kind of sound like an add........:redcard:

i suggest everyone buy what they want........i think the rhinos are great guns, however i'm saving for a MG special :smthumbup:

Basically the commercial muzzle is for making freeshafting more accurate and quicker on the reload. It does both of these things very well for the reasons people have already stated.

If you are in a place where the conditions dictate you must lineshaft then a gun with a commercial muzzle may not be for you.

When you switch from one gun to another there is always an adjustment period unless it is an identical gun, just because I was balls accurate with my JBL doesn't mean my GR gun (Wong) is going to go right where I think it will the first time I pulled the trigger. If it didn't, obviously that would not be a reflection of the relative worth of the GR gun but rather a sign that I need to adjust when shooting it. It is simply different.

I frankly love my Wong and my 52" commercial guns but I don't compare them to eachother as they are designed to do fundamentally different things. Rather I use them as the conditions, the dive plan or the fish dictate.

The biggest issue people face when buying a gun is that they listen to people who know nothing about what kind of spearfishing they plan on doing and what the prevalent conditions are where they plan on doing it. Pick your weapon accordingly.


Edit
I just read megabeasts post and he is pretty much right on IMHO.

FYI-Guns I have owned and shot more than 100 times;
JBL competition Magnum
JBL competition magnum XHD
54" Biller
48" classic rhino w/ commercial muzzle
52" Commercial teak
52" Commercial laminate
Wong GR Gun.

Guns I still own;
52" Commercial teak
52" Commercial laminate
GR Gun

I for one have never seen a wong gun on a local spearfishing tournament prize table but i sure as hell have seen people walking away with alot of SS guns and hornets and items from spearfishing specialties....

Be careful with your assumptions, many guns on the table are provided by dive shops not always dirrectly donated by Spearfishing Specialties


I for one have never seen a wong gun on a local spearfishing tournament prize table but i sure as hell have seen people walking away with alot of SS guns and hornets and items from spearfishing specialties....

Then you are not looking hard enough, Daryl Wong has been a support of local Fla tournment for years

And if you are looking to support Gun Distributors that support the sport and the industry, why dont you ask how many Gun Distributors show up at fishery meetings? Doesnt it make sence that they would want to help protect spearfishing and spearfishermans right. I know Kevin used to be active but i haven't seen him at fisheries meeting lately.

But i will repeat again Kevin's customer service is some of the best that i have encounterd so far, and as stated there are many who really like thier Comm guns. Mine is just one opinion. I think Megabeast did a good job of explaining.

what he said.

I have a 48' Classic with Commercial muzzle and it's the shizznit. I have a 54 biller and there is some difference but it's not drastic.

Here's the deal IMO. I feel the commercial muzzle gives you a more consistent repeatable shot. What I mean by that is, (like Kevin says) I can consistently put my shaft into an area about the size of a silver dollar from 8-10 feet (FROM THE TIP OF THE GUN, NOT MY BODY). With my 54 biller, I can consistently put a shaft from the same distance in an area about the size of a baseball. That my friends, translates into the difference between alot of stoned and unstoned fish.

I shoot alot in the pool with my friends/kid so that's how I know this. I have a sweet target made out of plywood and lead weights with a fish painted on it.

All that said, I know a bunch if guys that use rickety JBL parts on a curtain rod with no loading butt and kill more fish than me regularly. Time underwater is the most important thing. That's been said here a few times already.

Wicked if I was you dude, I would seriously save that money and go diving some more. I wax the fish with my 48' gun and don't beleive FOR A SECOND that by purchasing a gun that is 4-6 inches longer that you are going to have this tremendous performance increase, that's bullshit. You may be able to shoot a foot or two farther and maintain your accuracy. It is my experience that performance upgrades in spearfishing are gained in small increments, not in giant leaps. The one piece wood stock is a small strength and durability upgrade, longer stock = a small range upgrade, commercial muzzle = small accuracy upgrade. Now all these upgrades cost around or over 100$ but I'm telling you dude, you are NOT getting 100$ in performance increase.

The gun you have now is a great VALUE, you should keep learning on it, rag it out and then after you know your ass from a hole in the wall, then go drop 500ish bucks on a badass gun. The time for that purchase is not now in your spearfishing 'career' or 'life' or whatever. You don't even really know what you want or why you want it. Save your money, buy some shafts and go diving for a year, then make this purchase. You will be much wiser and more informed. I wish somebody would've told me that when I got into spearing and I'd of never bought several guns that I've now sold or gotten rid of.

Peace,
Tommy


This post is probably the one that explains the differences the best. I have never shot the commercial gun but I was waiting for someone to post with a side by side comparison between the two.

What gun do you shoot regularly?A Riffe C3X with a handle that I made using a 9/32 57" single flopper shaft with 2 5/8 bands. The only other gun I would move up to is an enclosed track gun. Apart from the enclosed track it looks like it will have to be a beefier gun to support 3 5/8 bands and control recoil. What Gamble was talking about..

I'd like to add that my initial comment was based on assuming Teh Wicked is a freediver. What I mean by this is that I don't know any freedivers that do not use a line on the spear. So Wicked, do you plan on using the spear without a line? If so then I was out of line cause I know nothing about that kind of setup.

Well this thread is about a gun (muzzle) designed for freeshafting, I don't know too many freedivers who freeshaft do you?

this will be a never ending thread...:bounce::bounce:

Ive always been believer of supporting the local guy who supports the local guy/shops/market..

If ya gonna buy a wong or a rifffe or some other spear mag gun because you think it will make you a better shot or people in cali are shooting it or it shoots straighter then you have more issues then purchasing the right equipment that will make you a better shot .


Why don't we/people spend the money that support the local shops/tourneys etc..

I for one have never seen a wong gun on a local spearfishing tournament prize table but i sure as hell have seen people walking away with alot of SS guns and hornets and items from spearfishing specialties....

yea yea this sounds like a add for kevin shop but i have never had a email not replied to when i had a question and or part needed if one of the local shops was out...

What Local Tournaments have you been in, or involved with?

Riffe, Wong AB Biller, JBL and Spearfishing Specialties have been sponsors at most tournaments.

Riffe, Spearfishing Specialties and Biller have always sponsored the SPO and Spearbored Open.

At the SPO Wong usually sponsors the Junior division and sometimes the women's division, I believe one year Sheri Daye won the women's division and was awarded a Wong, but since she has so many of them already, she donated it either to a junior or other woman, I can't remember the exact details, but it was a very classy thing for her to do.

Like Chris said in another post, a lot of the prizes and guns on the table are donated by dive shops, not necessarily the manufacturer of the item.

Deathstick has always been a big supporter of divers' rights.

Everyone should just reference Magabeast's post, I think he nailed it in the purest form. :toast:

Deathstick has always been a big supporter of divers' rights.

How could I forget that, he has donated more guns to the FRA than any other manufacturer out there, and it is just him and couple of his drinking buddies.:smthumbup:

Ken Jones is the man.:thumbup:

Ken is the man. Plus we got great photos of petra,

Everyone should just reference Magabeast's post, I think he nailed it in the purest form. :toast:

Aww shucks guys, I still feel like I got that ole' sales pitch from when I ran Jax Scuba. ;) Thanks for the kind words.

What Pat said about the difference between a Wong and a Comm Gun is dead on IMO. Both are high quality TOOLS for harvesting in certain conditions. They are also both specialty weapons and neither gun is a 'jack of all trades' or a 'good all around gun'. One is for rapid fire, rapid reload freeshafting and killing the shit out of everything that moves. The other is meant to be fired a whole lot less and at spookier targets. One is great for scuba, the other excels for freediving.

I think another question that Wicked needs to ask himself is, "What kind of killer do I want to be?" By that I mean, are you the kind of guy that wants to get every triggerfish, every sheephead, every mango, who wants to limit out on every species before he goes home? Or are you the kind of guy that wants to shoot 3-5 nice fish (which is more than enough to feed most families a few times) and be done with it? If you're the former, get a Comm gun, if your the latter, get a Wong.

You see what I mean, there are so many questions that Wicked has to answer and I don't know if he has all the answers to these questions, but he most likely will in 1 years time. That's why I say hold off on the purchase and learn on that 48. I honestly wish my father had taught me how to spear from day one with a polespear, then let me move up to a gun. I'd be a much more deadly spearo if I'd of started with the polespear before anything else. It's all about the stalk.

Basically the commercial muzzle is for making freeshafting more accurate and quicker on the reload. It does both of these things very well for the reasons people have already stated.

If you are in a place where the conditions dictate you must lineshaft then a gun with a commercial muzzle may not be for you.

When you switch from one gun to another there is always an adjustment period unless it is an identical gun, just because I was balls accurate with my JBL doesn't mean my GR gun (Wong) is going to go right where I think it will the first time I pulled the trigger. If it didn't, obviously that would not be a reflection of the relative worth of the GR gun but rather a sign that I need to adjust when shooting it. It is simply different.

I frankly love my Wong and my 52" commercial guns but I don't compare them to eachother as they are designed to do fundamentally different things. Rather I use them as the conditions, the dive plan or the fish dictate.

The biggest issue people face when buying a gun is that they listen to people who know nothing about what kind of spearfishing they plan on doing and what the prevalent conditions are where they plan on doing it. Pick your weapon accordingly.


Edit
I just read megabeasts post and he is pretty much right on IMHO.

FYI-Guns I have owned and shot more than 100 times;
JBL competition Magnum
JBL competition magnum XHD
54" Biller
48" classic rhino w/ commercial muzzle
52" Commercial teak
52" Commercial laminate
Wong GR Gun.

Guns I still own;
52" Commercial teak
52" Commercial laminate
GR Gun

I hoped Pat would chime in. He has the most level head of anyone I know and his comment are ALWAYS constructive!:yay: I have learned much from him without a lot of time spent.

Looks like MEGA has it down to the nuts and bolts.:fish:

Well this thread is about a gun (muzzle) designed for freeshafting, I don't know too many freedivers who freeshaft do you?I based my assumption on Teh Wicked's previous posts and my interaction with him, I'm under the impression he's freediving. Although he may have gone over to the bubbles side since..

Aww shucks guys, I still feel like I got that ole' sales pitch from when I ran Jax Scuba. ;) Thanks for the kind words.

What Pat said about the difference between a Wong and a Comm Gun is dead on IMO. Both are high quality TOOLS for harvesting in certain conditions. They are also both specialty weapons and neither gun is a 'jack of all trades' or a 'good all around gun'. One is for rapid fire, rapid reload freeshafting and killing the shit out of everything that moves. The other is meant to be fired a whole lot less and at spookier targets. One is great for scuba, the other excels for freediving.

I think another question that Wicked needs to ask himself is, "What kind of killer do I want to be?" By that I mean, are you the kind of guy that wants to get every triggerfish, every sheephead, every mango, who wants to limit out on every species before he goes home? Or are you the kind of guy that wants to shoot 3-5 nice fish (which is more than enough to feed most families a few times) and be done with it? If you're the former, get a Comm gun, if your the latter, get a Wong.

You see what I mean, there are so many questions that Wicked has to answer and I don't know if he has all the answers to these questions, but he most likely will in 1 years time. That's why I say hold off on the purchase and learn on that 48. I honestly wish my father had taught me how to spear from day one with a polespear, then let me move up to a gun. I'd be a much more deadly spearo if I'd of started with the polespear before anything else. It's all about the stalk.


Me too.:pissed:

If you were only missing 1 out of 100 shots, what exactly is the benefit of a commercial muzzle?

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear. I was accurate at close range0-10 ft or so with my JBL or Biller, after 10ft not as accurate with these guns, but with the commercial gun I can hit more hailmary type shots for those skittish Grouper than my other guns and its still great for close shots too. I agree with most of you that this type of gun is not for everyone.

I based my assumption on Teh Wicked's previous posts and my interaction with him, I'm under the impression he's freediving. Although he may have gone over to the bubbles side since..

I do both...:D

Only time I go scuba is when im going dedicated to drop deep. Like last weekend when I went out with Potshot, I took 3 tanks and burned them all down to 300psi. But the very next day me and Gixxer was freediving off St Pete Beach.

So here is my plan as of now. This gun is not an immediate purchase. I know I need to work on my shooting skills and they are deffinatly devloping. I plan on keep my 48 for my freediving days in clear water and using my line most of the time with it. However, while im at it im going to be taking this gun with me to the depths of the gulf with freeshafts. Saturday I freeshafted nearly all day. Sunday I was on the leash due to the different conditions. So what is gonna happen is this gun is prolly gonna get beaten to death, ragged out, smacked around and see the better half of the world. Freeshafting and line shafting. THEN, when im ready I will purchase my 52" Rhino Classic sport with the commerical muzzle. then I will have a good line gun and a even better free shaft gun...

Then save your $$$ and buy a 55" mid-handle deathstick and call it good!!! Have inserts added so you can add or remove a reel depending on the type of trip your going on. Great freeshaft AND freedive gun and still CHEAPER THAN A WONG!!!!! :yay::yay:

Then save your $$$ and buy a 55" mid-handle deathstick and call it good!!! Have inserts added so you can add or remove a reel depending on the type of trip your going on. Great freeshaft AND freedive gun and still CHEAPER THAN A WONG!!!!! :yay::yay:


:toast::thumbup::bounce::smthumbup:

Then save your $$$ and buy a 55" mid-handle deathstick and call it good!!! Have inserts added so you can add or remove a reel depending on the type of trip your going on. Great freeshaft AND freedive gun and still CHEAPER THAN A WONG!!!!! :yay::yay:

Very good advice, I had one of the first run Deathsticks, the gun is great, I told Ken how I wanted it built, he dropped it off a few months later and told me how he did all of the things I asked him to do, I forgot about most of them, but Ken remembered, funny thing is I think Ken drinks more than I do, but he has a better memory, I guess I better drink more to improve me memory.

I can only imagine how much better the guns are built now, as anyone who builds anything knows, the more you do it, the better you get, the only thing I changed was the handle as I prefer the Alexander handle over the Aimrite handle, there is nothing wrong with the Aimrite handle, I just prefer the Alexander handle, and Ken now builds them with either handle, as they both mount the same and are interchangeable.

From what I have heard Daryl has great customer service, but Ken is great, he called up and asked me if my gun warped, as they had a gun warp and he wanted to make sure mine was OK, I checked it and told him it was fine, I don't think he believed me as he kept telling me how the check it, I finally reminded him I am a contractor and cabinet maker, so I should be able to tell if it was warped or not, he probably still doesn't think I know what I am talking about though.

The Deathstick is the one gun that truly could be used as freeshaft gun as well as a freedive gun with a reel on it.

Does this mean you don't have any first hand experience with the gun yourself? Are you just regurgitating your friends comments?


this comment was geared towards the $850 Daryl Wong MG Special....the 52" rhino is my primary gun.

Where can I get more info on a Deathstick? I have searched for them but cant seem to locate a website that holds any info. Just mentioning of the gun...

There is no website. Just send a PM to Big Pig. He makes them.

I guess that makes:awink::awink: me chop liver

NO,, But I don't have one of your guns now do I Tom :moon:

Get off your butt and bring that teak over and you will.:whip:

:D

Where can I get more info on a Deathstick? I have searched for them but cant seem to locate a website that holds any info. Just mentioning of the gun...,

so its a completely custom gun? Built from one stock with the parts you want???

To an extent. Ken has a few variations that he is willing to build. Drop him a PM {BigPig*&%$*&%$ and he can explain the process.

Being the new proud owner of a 55" deathstick..The Pink Sticker..I can assure you your custom gun will be one that will have whatever your heart desires..Ken very pragmatic and will tell you whats good whats bad..the do's and dont's..VERY nice gun...Just sold a SS rhino comm. Nice gun shoots great but for the same $$ you can go custom and have an enclosed track gun..
Deathstick is the way to go...

What is the screen name I need to send a PM too??

Bigpig