I have experimented with a few different finishes and ways of applying them, including many thin coats with sanding after each one, and putting the gun on a rotiserie, and have yet to get that perfectly smooth finish like you so often see...My question is how does one get a finish so perfectly smooth and even? Has anybody ever tried spraying on very thin coats with a paint sprayer? It seems to me the a paint gun would provide very even coats which would come out smooth like I want...Any thoughts/suggestions?
John K

I wonder if a dip-tube would work. We coat wooden arrows that way. If you try it, just hang vertically to dry.

There is no such thing as a perfect finish, there are always trade-offs to be made. For example: You could use Lacquer (wouldn't recommend it) - fast drying so very few dust nubs, easy to spray on, hard enough to be "rubbed out" (sanding with progressively higher grit sandpaper and powders) but does very poorly in water and scratches easily because it is very hard. There are similar trade offs with every finish. Two of the few problems with epoxy and polyurethanes is that are they are slow drying and are not hard enough to be "rubbed out". Yes you can sand them but the finishes are not hard enough to polish up to a semi-gloss or gloss.

It is very difficult to get a perfect finish 'Out of the can". With slow drying finishes like epoxy and poly dust falls into the finish and creates little nubs.

If you are determined to have the glossy epoxy look my suggestion would be to use thinned epoxy (read all about it on other threads) put on several coats (sand between coats) and then sand the final epoxy coat until there are no imperfections. Sand it up to 220 or 350 grit, clean it so there is no dust on the surface, and then top coat it with a very thinned down coat of a "fast drying" polyurethane in a low dust environment. This gives you the gloss coat.

Oil finishes are nice because they bring out the figure of the wood, don't look like a layer of plastic covering the wood and are easy to apply and repair but they are not as long lasting or durable as fiilm forming finishes. Therefore, they need maintanence more regularly than epoxy or poly guns.

A mix of oil and poly solves some of these shortcomings. The finish is film forming but it is very thin (depending on the number of coats), brings out the figure of the wood, lasts longer than the oil alone, is easy to apply and repair.

Hope this helps.

Good info Wahoo, thanks a bunch!

What wahoo said is correct.
If you want an almost perfect glossy finish, start with a couple coats of epoxy, I don't think you need to thin it, especially West System, it will penetrate good if the wood is clean and dry.
When cured sand it smoothe, you will be able to see all the low spots, another couple coats and repeat sanding, do this untill when it is sanded it is perfectly flat, should not take many coats if you did a good job with the initial preperation.
Then spray your work area with a garden sprayer, misting everythig walls, ceiling, floor.
Wipe gun with a tack rag, then start with top coats, I like spar varnish, but urethane is ok.
Use a good (expensive) brush and put a couple coats on.
Sand with fine paper, couple more coats.
Continue this untill you get the finish you want, maybe 6 coats.
This will give you a long lasting finish that is really tough.
I did my gun this way and it still looks pretty good after more than 10 years.
I just leave it laying in the cuddy on my boat, by the way I never rinsed that sea hornet with fresh water and the trigger mech does not have a bit of rust on it.

wahoo has it covered pretty well, here is a couple of other suggestions- regarding poxy

try MAS epoxy (www.masepoxies.com or Boaters World) it doesn't blush, comes in small quantities, brushes on great use fine hair brush-never foam-or you can spray it on (I never had to, but I understand you can),don't overstir, mix enough for the first pass, if anything they have superb customer service- it would have also been my first choice to use as adhesive for the laminations.

If the epoxy is not completely cured (18 hours or so) then go right ahead and put more on. If the first layer is cured then you have to lightly sand and wipe down (Acetone) surface to remove any amine blush that may be on the surface. This can be tricky. Sometimes you can feel the blush when you wipe your hand over cured epoxy, slight greasy feeling. Even if you don’t feel it, I sugg. you wipe down.

Follow the instuctions when dealing with a 2 part system the tempt has a major influence on the finish (if it cures-hardens-to fast or to slow it can cause bubbles/cracks etc.) with this in mind try to keep the controllable variables controlled- eg indoors at about 78 F, in an area with no air circulation would be ideal

A high build may look good, but after a couple of outins it shows all the blemishes, also MAS is mighty glossy with just a coat or two.
hope my 2 centavos helps, :awink:

Good Luck:toast:

What wahoo said is correct.
If you want an almost perfect glossy finish, start with a couple coats of epoxy, I don't think you need to thin it, especially West System, it will penetrate good if the wood is clean and dry.
When cured sand it smoothe, you will be able to see all the low spots, another couple coats and repeat sanding, do this untill when it is sanded it is perfectly flat, should not take many coats if you did a good job with the initial preperation.
Then spray your work area with a garden sprayer, misting everythig walls, ceiling, floor.
Wipe gun with a tack rag, then start with top coats, I like spar varnish, but urethane is ok.
Use a good (expensive) brush and put a couple coats on.
Sand with fine paper, couple more coats.
Continue this untill you get the finish you want, maybe 6 coats.
This will give you a long lasting finish that is really tough.
I did my gun this way and it still looks pretty good after more than 10 years.
I just leave it laying in the cuddy on my boat, by the way I never rinsed that sea hornet with fresh water and the trigger mech does not have a bit of rust on it.



I think the thinning is important. I haven't done a test but after cutting into a piece with thinned epoxy on it I was really surprised how deep it penetrated, and I would be surprised if un-thinned epoxy penetrated that well. It also eliminates bubbles and speeds up the drying time considerably, thus less dust falling into the finish and you can put on 2-3 coats with one batch of epoxy. Start at one end of the gun and by the time you finish that coat it is dry enough where you started to start on the second coat. I didnt worry about the ratio too much as it is difficult with small batches. Probably something like 70-30 zylen-epoxy. MAS is good but my last gun was thinned 5-ton epoxy that comes in the syringe at any harware store. Convenient because you can make small batches without worrying about the mix ratio and get 2-3 batches out of one syringe. Used two syringes for a 63" bluewater gun.

I have west systems epoxy, what do I use to thin it and where do I get it? Thanks

xylene- leows or home depot

I'll second the xylene. It dries slower than other solvents like acetone, which ensures even penetration and drying, plus it's easier to work with. I did the same as Wahoo on my bluewater gun - thin some Devcon 2-ton epoxy with xylene, then coat the entire gun. By the time you finish the first coat, it will have penetrated deep into the stock, and you can add a pseudo-second coat.

I forgot to add that my thinned epoxy method was learned from kjflyfish, after he researched and tested the method. Must give credit where credit is due. What took you so long to chim in Kolt ?:toast:

I have tried thining the epoxy and it is ok for the first application, but I think it might weaken it some.
As for drying faster, I don't think so, the solvent might evaporate faster but the epoxy cures by a thermal reaction and the only thing that will make it cure faster is heat. As the epoxy cures it heats up and that also thins it.
West recomends not thinning it, besides, you want to build up the thickness of the coating, the solvent works against that.
I have used alot of 1 to 1 epoxy, it is alot cheaper than the others but it is alot thicker and you might want to thin it so it brushes better, but for a gun you use so little I would go with the more expensive stuff and not thin it.
Epoxy grips wood better than anything and if applied properly it will never lose it's grip.

Wahoo - you pretty much summed it all up, so I just enjoyed reading.

BarnaleBill - The reason I think thinned epoxy is a great way to coat a speargun is that it penetrates so well. As for drying time, a 70/30 thinned epoxy will actually take much longer to fully cure, but for the same reason you stated - the solvent must evaporate. Check out the facts on CPES. It is a thinned epoxy that is approximately 70% solvent (includes xylene, naptha and several others) and 30% epoxy. It has been regarded as a woodworking miracle by some, and the fact is that anyone can make a similar product at home. Another advantage to thinned epoxy is that you can have a great looking, strong finish (it is absorbed deep into the pores) that doesn't look like a fat coat of plastic is on top of your beautiful, expensive wood.

Wahoo - you pretty much summed it all up, so I just enjoyed reading.

BarnaleBill - The reason I think thinned epoxy is a great way to coat a speargun is that it penetrates so well. As for drying time, a 70/30 thinned epoxy will actually take much longer to fully cure, but for the same reason you stated - the solvent must evaporate. Check out the facts on CPES. It is a thinned epoxy that is approximately 70% solvent (includes xylene, naptha and several others) and 30% epoxy. It has been regarded as a woodworking miracle by some, and the fact is that anyone can make a similar product at home. Another advantage to thinned epoxy is that you can have a great looking, strong finish (it is absorbed deep into the pores) that doesn't look like a fat coat of plastic is on top of your beautiful, expensive wood.

I'm familiar with products like that, Git Rot, is another one.
They are made to let the epoxy run into small cracks and crevices, they are not made for strength or a good bond.
For a finish like deepdestroyer is looking for,
I stand behind what I said. :)

Fair enough! Just to add, I like a final coat of un-thinned poly on top of my guns.

There are a lot of ways to get a good finish, and everyone likes something different.

Pics never really show finish very well but here is a pic so you get some idea of the result. This is two syringes of 5-ton thinned with xylene (5-6 coats). The reason I like this finish is it that it doesn't look like a thick coat of plastic like most epoxy finishes. You could get a result like that if you kept putting on more coats but for me that defeats the purpose, I don't like the plastic look. As far as weakening the finish goes...I don't know how you would test that but the fact that it is not a thick layer of plastic-like finish that can chip with rough treatment, yellow or peel off after time, outweighs this potential weakness. Another advantage is that when you do need to refinish the gun you dont need to strip off that thick layer of epoxy, you just sand lightly and then put on more coats.

As I said at the beginning, there is no perfect finish, just trade-offs and you have to decide what your priorities are.

Thanks for the great info guys, I did the thick plastic-like finish on my blue water gun and thought it was just so-so. Now I am more after what wahoo is explaining. Something with great penetration that can be applied in very thin layers sounds perfect!

grt points made by wahoo and Kj- also the thinning helps the poxy absorb into the wood, and if you add the second coat at the perfect time (will vary depending on ratios) you could very well lessen the sanding by half.