View Full Version : Molded Carbon Fiber Guns


Griswold
10-10-2007, 07:37 PM
Molded Carbon Fiber Guns

TinMan (Jeff) and I started down this road a few months ago and here are a few pictures of our first prototype which has the following features:

(1) Molded carbon fiber body.
(2) Handle raised as high as possible to reduce the vertical distance from the center line of the shaft to the hand. This was done to allow max power while minimizing the tendency of the gun to want to rotate around the point of support (your hand) and kick the muzzle up.
(3) Magnetic line release which acts on the magnetic field of the shaft. Nothing actually touches the shaft, yet when the shaft is in place the line release is locked and the moment the end of the shaft passes the line release it releases the line. To reset it, you simply re-insert the shaft.
(4) Internal weighting system which allows the diver to adjust the buoyancy and balance of the gun while on the boat (takes about 3 minutes).
(5) Muzzle designed with a band slot so that normal bands can be used and easily removed, yet they stay in-line with the shaft when loaded.
(6) Trigger silencer to eliminate the metal on metal ringing of the dinner bell for sharks and jewfish.
(7) The track is a dovetail shaped Neptonics UHMW track that is mechanically locked into the carbon fiber, allowing the carbon fiber to be continuous so that its strength is not compromised. The track in this gun shoots a 5/16” shaft.
(8) The gun is filled with a buoyant, yet highly crush resistant material which we developed for this purpose. It holds screws about as well as pine wood. It will not absorb water and will not rot.
(9) The shape is designed to be easy to track in the water while having enough mass for 4 bands.
(10) The push rod is full enclosed within the carbon fiber, yet can be accessed if necessary.
(11) This gun is 57” long, weighs a little over 9 pounds fully rigged, is slightly negative and perfectly balanced with the shaft in, and positive with the shaft out. We can make guns from 48” to 65” from this mold.

I have used the gun several times and am very happy with its performance. It has shot wahoo, AJ’s, snapper, cudas and bonita in the two trips I made. It has very light recoil with 4-5/8” bands and the shaft goes where I aim it.

Yes, this is the same gun that I had with me at the Blue Wild Expo. It was kinda cool walking around with a gun we made in my garage which was on par with or ahead of what is being produced by the big boys. We spent a couple months thinking we would work something out with a big manufacturer, but in the end they decided that they had too much on their plate at this time to take on something this challenging to produce.

We also spent a good deal of time working on patent issues, but recently decided that while we believe that several of the features on this gun could be patented, we aren’t really in this for money and going down that road has taken the joy out of it for both of us. If we see some of these things implemented in other's guns in the future, maybe we will have done something good for the sport. If someone wants to hire a good design team, give us a call.

We’ll post pictures showing how most of the features work but we’re going to hold onto a few things, so please don’t get bent out of shape when we decline to post the fill material details.

Griswold
10-10-2007, 07:41 PM
Here are some more pictures. The last ones show how the variable weight system works.

Kaan
10-10-2007, 07:47 PM
that looks great
good job :yay::yay:

snowstopsspears
10-10-2007, 08:20 PM
Dude, that is f*cking sick looking. How well does it track in the water? Does it hold up to abuse on the boat pretty well?

Congrats on producing a truly unique gun. This Natty Ice is for you. :toast:

FREEK
10-10-2007, 08:24 PM
I saw this gun at the expo....drool factor of 10!!!! I aslo remember when you showed it to Terry Maas, he was pretty impressed with too..:smnotworthy:

Tin Man
10-10-2007, 11:15 PM
As Chad said earlier, we've decided not to pursue patents on some of the new things that we have been playing with. We decided instead to share some of those details, in the hopes that others will experiment further and share any improvements that they develop.

So here are some additional specifics:

The variable ballasting system consists of two stacks like this in the butt of the gun, and one in the front. The trim of the gun can be adjusted by adding or removing the little threaded bronze cylinders. One of the things we found, though, is that air trapped in the spaces will slowly and annoyingly bubble out. Our next generation will have a combination of neutrally buoyant plastic cylinders and heavy brass ones, so that there is no empty space to trap air. Just adjust the number of plastic vs. bronze to change the weight.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/VariableBallast.jpg

The "silent trigger" uses a little rubber tipped screw to keep the trigger seer from striking the top of the trigger housing. Simple, easy to replace if it wears out, and should be adaptable to many different trigger mechs. I know that a lot of people are of the opinion that trigger noise really doesn't matter, but I figured that quieter certainly couldn't hurt.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/SilentTrigger.jpg

Some of you may have previously seen the movie of the prototype magnetic release, but here it is again for those who haven't.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/th_MagneticReleaserev3004.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/?action=view&current=MagneticReleaserev3004.flv)

Some notes for anyone who wants to tinker with this concept a little. The nickel coating on the magnet is NOT sufficient to prevent corrosion of Neodymium-Iron-Boron magnets. Our next generation will use a magnet encased in a thick rubber shell. The next generation also includes an internal rubber bumper to eliminate the noticable "snap" when it opens. Here's a picture of the assembled module almost ready to install. Just route a pocket the right depth and press it in.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/Magreleasehousing.jpg

I guess that some people would have made a different choice about sharing these construction details. Going forward, I hope that people will make this work by taking a few minutes to share any constructive criticisms, or ideas for improvements, or pics of their own improved versions.

Tin Man (Jeff DeRocher)

D Wreck
10-10-2007, 11:25 PM
Nice work. That is a beutiful gun.:smthumbup:

settingsteel
10-11-2007, 01:07 AM
You guys have out done yourselves:toast: Nice design & fresh concepts!
how about dipping the magnets in that rubberry/vinyl stuff they sell at home depo to dip your tools in?
I don't know if the magnet you guys used are the same as the ones dentist use (don't know exactly for what???), but I've heard they are very strong.
and finally as far as patents go...if not mistaken (and I ain't no patent attorney) as long as you have a good (dated) paper trail and pix (as in this thread:awink:) you are protected to a certain degree

Tin Man
10-11-2007, 09:22 AM
Thanks SettingSteel. I would be very interested to learn more about magnets in dental applications, if you have more info or can point me in a specific direction. The NIB magnets that we used are, as far as I know, the strongest that are commercially available and are plenty powerful enough to operate the line release. What I am especially interested in, though, is what ever corrosion resistant coating the dentists use.

The problem with using the dipped coating, I think, is that it might be difficult to accurately control the thickness of the coating. If you can't control the outside dimensions closely, then each little magnet holder would have to be custom fit. I have found some magnets online that have a tough rubber coating on the outside, and the ones I ordered look like they might be up to the job. The only problem is that the rubber coating makes them a little larger, requiring me to slightly redesign the release. I'll keep you posted on the progress.

And a little more about our patent thoughts. We came to the realization that the effort (and expense) of filing numerous patent applications was already sucking the fun out of this project, and we had only just begun the process. Disclosing these details on a public forum should (and I'm no patent attorney either) establish these concepts as a part of the "prior art", which would make it harder for someone else to patent the ideas and prevent us or anyone else from making them.

Teh Wicked
10-11-2007, 09:57 AM
Are you guys debating on building and selling these guns soon? You should if your not that attached to being so unique right now.

cww180
10-11-2007, 10:23 AM
Yeah I just shared an idea recently with a gun maker about making the derlin muzzle with an enclosed track so the last part that leaves the gun will be in an enclosed track. Excellent for hybrids that are powered up and would make it easier to freeshaft also.

settingsteel
10-11-2007, 06:14 PM
Tinman try www.henryschein.com do a search-in the online catalog:toast:

SeaBass
10-11-2007, 07:27 PM
Man that gun is sooooo sick, i want one!!

wahoo
10-24-2007, 08:46 PM
Tin Man what are the dimensions on the line release case and how soon can I buy one? Your design is ingenious.

Tin Man
10-24-2007, 10:27 PM
Wahoo - The first release was module was about 1/2" wide x 2-1/2" long, and could be made to fit any gun with at least 1-1/2" below the shaft. If you liked that release, you'll love the new one I'm working on for our molded carbon Euro gun. This one is lower profile (needs only 1" below the shaft), incorporates a larger magnet with a tough rubber coating, doesn't need a spring, and has an adjustable "cam-over".

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/th_LowProfile009.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/?action=view&current=LowProfile009.flv)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/LowProfile003.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/LowProfile004.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/LowProfile001.jpg

Right now, I am kind of tied up prototyping stuff for the new gun, so I haven't made anything to sell. But I will be happy to send you some drawings and talk you through the details if you want to build one.

Speardivertampa
10-24-2007, 10:45 PM
Absolutely badass chad!