Here are some additional photos of the handle mock up for the Carbon Fiber Euro that Chad mentioned in his post updating our mid-handle gun progress.

The main features are:

1. A very high mount handle, nearly in line with the shaft, to reduce muzzle jump
2. A moldable plastic handle that is easily customized, and can be reworked simply by heating in hot water. We may also make the loading pad out of the same stuff.
3. The ability to use a standard, name brand trigger mechanism (Neptonic in these photos).
4. An elliptical molded carbon fiber barrel with our special lightweight filling.
5. Enclosed polymer track
6. Variable ballasting at the muzzle
7. Can mount reels or other accessories anywhere using regular wood screws.
8. Magnetic line release (we hope)

The main concern, as Chad noted, is that you give up a few inches of band pull by using a standard trigger mech and positioning it as we have. In exchange, you get the durability of an Aimrite, Alexander, Neptonic, Kitto, or similar trigger, and the handle mounted about as high as it can be. Good trade, or not?

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/EuroHandle007.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/EuroHandle008b.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/EuroHandle012b.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/EuroHandle011b.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/EuroHandle016b.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/EuroHandle015.jpg

What have we missed? How can we make this the best that it can be?

Jeff

I think you have a great idea going. One thing I noticed is that it seems like the trigger pull would be a bit heavy with the pin located all the way up at the housing. Also, with a slight increase in the stock dimensions, you could probably get the slide closer to the trigger - that would help with the loss in band stretch.

Kolt - I had the same concern about trigger tension resulting from the shortened lever arm. I don't yet know how it will feel under load, since all we have is a mock up at this point, but the pull of the cocked trigger isn't a problem.

It's not clear from the photos, of course, but the front half of the handle assembly slides up into the rear of the carbon fiber tube, all the way to the rear of the trigger mech. So the handle needs to have a constant cross section up to that point, and as small of one as possible to keep the dimensions of the tube small. That's the reason that we didn't shape it like the green line you marked. Possible, yes, but it would increase the complexity of the construction quite a bit to gain less than half an inch.

Come on Tin man, you didn't have the heart to trim that sear yet even for the picture :D

Baby steps! And it's a borrowed mech . . .

Sounds like this was well thought out - let's see a prototype! I'll test it for you too - just send it to New Zealand. You could add "tested the world over" as a slogan!

"Tested the world over", I love it. One thing that I forgot to mention in regerd to your earlier question about trigger pull. Putting the pull rod up high on the trigger shortens the lever arm by about half as compared to where your finger ususally rests. The effect of this is to double the trigger pressure, as you pointed out, but it also halves the pull distance. The jury is still out on whether the trigger pressure will be too hard when the gun is loaded, but personally, I really like the shortened trigger pull. Maybe just me, but I hate a trigger with such a long pull that I keep wondering when it will go off. I like knowing that as soon as my finger moves (actually about 1/4"), then the shaft flies. Of course, opinions on this will vary a lot, I'm sure.

All good points. A quick test would answer a lot of questions. Keep us updated :beer:

Your trigger will be about 2-3X harder to pull, since you are not taking advantage of the lever action. Don't know if thats a big deal or not.

If the trigger resistance is too great with the bands loaded couldnt you use a trigger instead of a slide and overcome the loss of leverage at the mechanisml trigger with the lever action of your second trigger? You guys probably thought of that already?

you mean like this? excuse the crude drawing - my mouse is acting up.

One of our early concepts included something along those lines.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/Euro001.jpg

The middle lever, with multiple adjustment holes, would allow the user to select a setting that provided the combination of trigger pull force, and trigger pull distance, that he likes best. We opted to go for simple first, but I have to admit that there is a certain appeal to a mechanism that I can adjust exactly the way I want it.

I don't know yet if we will use a magnetic release in this gun, but I wanted to have that option if we chose. Only problem is that the magnetic release we previously developed was way too tall for any gun with less than about 1-1/2" beneath the shaft.

As evolution progresses, I plan to continue posting here for everyone's honest evaluation, or use if they want. This latest design incorporates four significant improvements. First, the magnet is larger, and is encased in a tough plastic coating to prevent corrosion. Second, this lower profile design needs just 1" below the shaft for installation. Third, I included an adjustment screw which is accessible from outside the gun, that allows the user to tune the release until it JUST barely cams over, but still releases smoothly and reliably. And lastly, the geometry of the magnet holder prevents it from over-rotating, so it can't get stuck in the open position.

The use of Delrin components was just to make prototyping easier. The real thing will probably be of waterjet cut stainless.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/th_LowProfile009.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/?action=view&current=LowProfile009.flv)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/LowProfile001.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/LowProfile003.jpg
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/Jeffs_network_pics/LowProfile004.jpg

Getting better? Worries?

Jeff

I'm worried you wont actually send one to NZ...:D

I don't want to SEND one, I want to BRING one!