Probably old news to some, but the first time that I had seen this.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/10/17/spain.ship/index.html

I understand that some (or most?) countries will claim that they never give up title to a comissioned warship. Maybe someone can elaborate on the legal details of salvage in international waters?

Gotta wonder who ya believe in this situation.
One the one hand, I see where Spain is coming from, depending on where the shipwreck site is. If the americans went into spanish waters and took artifacts out of it, I'm pretty sure Spain has a reason to be pissed off.
If the wreck is in international waters, than I thought that was free salvage? In that case, I wouldn't think that Spain had any right to detain or arrest that captain and his ship.
Interesting.

Gotta wonder who ya believe in this situation.
One the one hand, I see where Spain is coming from, depending on where the shipwreck site is. If the americans went into spanish waters and took artifacts out of it, I'm pretty sure Spain has a reason to be pissed off.
If the wreck is in international waters, than I thought that was free salvage? In that case, I wouldn't think that Spain had any right to detain or arrest that captain and his ship.
Interesting.

This has been brewing for awhile. It's not about right and wrong or who deserves it. It's about hundreds of millions of dollars that will soon be billiions. When that kind of money comes into play, it turns into hardball and a contest of lawyers and politicians.

I heard an NPR report on this awhile back. I guess the Explorer guys have equipment that can recover goods down to something like 10,000 feet. They're insisting they were in international waters, but they obviously knew the Spanish didn't think so, or they wouldn't have flown their treasure out of Gibraltar to the U.S. before telling anyone. They could have secured themselves agains plunderers leaving the goods in Gibraltar.

The Spanish know they can claim territorial jurisdiction, because of the way territorial waters have been redefined in recent years to protect fisheries.

I'm guessing the Spanish are just trying to establish some kind of legal precedent. With the technology advancing to the point to where it'll soon be possible to recover anything anywhere, they want to lay claim to all that wealth, and I'm guessing the Spanish have more gold and silver at the bottom of the ocean than anybody.

What do you guys expect? After the reaming that Fisher gave them over the Atocha, and all the treasure salvaged from the 1715 fleet and 1733 fleet, its no wonder they're pissed off.

What do you guys think if an American boat full of gold sunk 100 years ago in international waters? How about an american boat in Spanish waters? Do you think we'd do the same? Of course. Do you think we'd give up ownership because it was sunk in another country's waters? Hell no.

The catch here is all spanish gold carries the imprint of the spanish royal crest. It was Spanish gold at the time of sinking, although it was stolen from native south americans just prior. So ownership gets really messy, regardless of the laws established.

What do you guys expect? After the reaming that Fisher gave them over the Atocha, and all the treasure salvaged from the 1715 fleet and 1733 fleet, its no wonder they're pissed off.

What do you guys think if an American boat full of gold sunk 100 years ago in international waters? How about an american boat in Spanish waters? Do you think we'd do the same? Of course. Do you think we'd give up ownership because it was sunk in another country's waters? Hell no.

The catch here is all spanish gold carries the imprint of the spanish royal crest. It was Spanish gold at the time of sinking, although it was stolen from native south americans just prior. So ownership gets really messy, regardless of the laws established.

So by your definition that gold belongs to Juan Carlos?
He's one wealthy Mofo then.

Do you think we'd give up ownership because it was sunk in another country's waters? Hell no.

Agreed, particularly if it was as valuable as these ships are. On the other hand, salvage laws have been around for centuries, and as mercenary as they are, they seem to stick.

To put a finer point on it, if an Amercican boat sank in Spanish waters and it was recovered by another American, who gets it? If the same boat went down in American waters, who gets it? If it was insured cargo and the original owners got reimbursed for it's full value, but it was recovered 100 years later with a value 100 times it's original value, who gets it? What if the original owners only received partial reimbursement. Then, what if some smarmy politician sees a trend, and passes some kind of bullshit legislation claiming rights to antiquities or heritage or whatever?

With that kind of money involved and competing jurisdictions, there's bound to be squabbles. And you can bet the Explorers lawyers have actuaries that came up with contingencies for some kind of settlement with the Spanish. Those guys are exceedingly well prepared.

I've been in this salvage company's office here in Tampa. VERY NICE digs they got there! They are a publicly traded company. Thier stock price soared after this discovery. I wonder what it's doing now?

Just out of curiosity what is the name on the stock market?

Just out of curiosity what is the name on the stock market?

OMEX on the NASDAQ board. It's actually up 10% right now.

Seized ship's captain released in Spain

ASSOCIATED PRESS
MADRID, Spain — The captain of a treasure-hunting ship that Spain intercepted in a dispute over a $500 million undersea find was released today after undergoing questioning, the skipper’s company said.

The American captain, Sterling Vorus, was detained after the Odyssey Explorer was seized Tuesday as it sailed from the British colony of Gibraltar off Spain’s southern tip into Spanish territorial waters, Spanish police said.

Vorus was held by Civil Guard overnight after refusing to allow police aboard to search his ship, Odyssey co-chairman Greg Stemm told The Associated Press.
Police were searching the vessel today, he said.

The dispute began when Odyssey, a Tampa-based company that specializes in deep-sea shipwreck recoveries, announced the discovery of a Colonial-era shipwreck in May and said coins found on the vessel were flown to the United States from Gibraltar.

Spain filed claims in a U.S. federal court over the find, arguing that if the shipwrecked vessel was Spanish — or the treasure removed from its waters — the find belonged to Spain.

Culture Minister Cesar Antonio Molina said the government viewed Odyssey as modern day pirates. “There have always been navies, laws and the rule of law to help combat pirates,” Molina told journalists at Spain’s Senate.

Odyssey has insisted the shipwreck was in international waters but has not given an exact location or a ship’s name.

Another Odyssey vessel involved in the treasure hunt off Gibraltar, the Ocean Alert, was seized, searched and released after a week in July.
In both cases the Civil Guard said it was acting on orders from a Spanish judge who in June instructed authorities to seize vessels belonging to Odyssey Marine Exploration if they sailed from Gibraltar.

Stemm insisted Odyssey’s activities were legitimate and transparent. “This whole thing is so crazy,” he said.

Stemm would not comment on Spanish press reports that Odyssey had removed high-tech equipment from the Odyssey Explorer prior to it being boarded by Civil Guard investigators.

A very close friend retired on OMR stock when it hit the first time back in the day. He tried to get me to get in on some of the initial offerings and I didn't listen:slap: :FIREdevil: