Another feature of Riffe guns that I've been taking for granted. The line release automatically assumes a position after firing that allows the spear to be loaded without messing with it. On a line release that doesn't have this feature the line release either needs to be pushed back manually or the gun tilted significantly butt down for it to slide back. If this is not done the spear will lock in the mech but the line release will be stuck pointing forward.

I've looked at the Riffe system and I believe I can copy it. It consists of a spring in the bottom hole of the line release pivot screw and a slot cut into the line release. However I don't want to make any mistakes so if anyone knows exactly how to go about doing this please post here.

If this is not done the spear will lock in the mech but the line release will be stuck pointing forward.



The shaft won't even lock in the mechanism unless the line release is in the rear position.

At least it wouldn't on my Riffe's before he added the spring, and it won't on my Aiimrite and Alexander mechanisms now.

Load the gun facing up. The release should be really loose with no friction and the slot should also be smooth with no burs.

Bill, just checked it again. It is an Aimrite mech and the shaft definitly locks in even if the line release is in the forward position. I don't think this has to do as much with the mech as the installation of the line release, the distance of the pivot screw from the trigger mech and the length of the line release.Load the gun facing up.Davie, that's pretty lame. The natural loading position is with the butt pointed slightly up. There's a reason why an automatic line release reset is incorporated into some guns. I don't want to have to worry about it especially if I need to reload fast.

For me the loading position is grabbing the gun at the muzzle with butt facing completely down. Then pass shaft through my grasped hand at the muzzle and lock it in with my other free hand. This allows me to have the bands close to my hand so I dont have to reach for them as I load.

That's the way I do it but the butt ends up pointing slightly up. The butt has to be pointing significantly downwards and the line release also needs a second or two to slide back.

That's the way I do it but the butt ends up pointing slightly up. The butt has to be pointing significantly downwards and the line release also needs a second or two to slide back.

Because you hip load?

I'm with Dan on this. I have all Alexander mechanisms and it is just a small inconvenience that I want to correct on my next gun.

Bill, just checked it again. It is an Aimrite mech and the shaft definitly locks in even if the line release is in the forward position. I don't think this has to do as much with the mech as the installation of the line release, the distance of the pivot screw from the trigger mech and the length of the line release.

That's the only one I've ever heard of. In addition to my own guns, I've had a lot of guys come by with new Wongs to have me help rig them and/or show them how they work, and I always demonstrate to them that the shaft won't lock in unless the line release is in the aft position. I haven't seen one lock yet.

Because you hip load?No, this is before loading. Anyways that's not the point, even if it does it once out of 10 times I don't want to worry about it.

Wahoo, have you looked to see the way Riffe does it? You should be able to install it on existing guns.

I realize that this is vague, but a few years ago I recall a guy on the Freedivelist saying that this spring thing had screwed up somehow, and he removed it. He said it was just one more thing to go wrong.

Took me awhile to find this photo from and old post. Cant remember who's idea it was to give them credit. Is this how Riffe does it? I can't say I fully understand the mechinism though. What provides the force to pull the release lever forward and overcome the spring action when the trigger is released?

Took me awhile to find this photo from and old post. Cant remember who's idea it was to give them credit. Is this how Riffe does it?Basically yes but not exactly. The idea is that the threading of the pivot screw is the same as the inside of the spring. However the hole for the spring is larger than the hole for the pivot screw hence you can't drill it from the top. I think Riffe drills it from the bottom and then seals the hole. The spring is probably inserted through the slot and pushed down into the larger pivot screw hole. The line release also needs a slot cut into it to accommodate the spring lever arm. This is just my guess on how it's done, I wonder if Jay will tell me if I call and ask.

Bill, whether it locks with the line release in the wrong position or not is a moot point, both situations make you lose time. I know that you like pics though so here you go.. :)

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/da4095/LineRelease01.jpg http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/da4095/LineRelease02.jpg

If the line release lever were made of 17-4 stainless, you could inset a small cylindrical magnet into the stock, just aft of the lever, to pull it back during reloading.:)

If the line release lever were made of 17-4 stainless, you could inset a small cylindrical magnet into the stock, just aft of the lever, to pull it back during reloading.:)

Do you mean put the magnet on the outside of the gun? So it would pull the part of the lever that projects out towards the back?

Or a magnet inside the stock? A magnet inside the stock would need to go in front of the lever and pull the part of the lever inside the gun towards the front of the gun.

I believe Riffe Patented the mechanism you're referring to. So just shoot them a call.
Love how you try and figure everything out. If I had the time and didn't work so many damn hours I'd take everything apart and try to improve it myself.
Quick question though, If your Riffe works why do you constantly want to modify it?

Which modifications are you referring to?

Wahoo - You're right. The depth and position of the magnet would have to be varied depending on the geometry of the release. The magnet could be deeper, forward of the release, and pull the inner half forward. Or it could be near the outside surface of the stock, behind the release, and pull the outer half of the release lever back.

Hey, Speareasy, I am with you on this as a needed improvement - I didn't realize how nice that feature is on a Riffe until you use a gun without it. Please post how you solve it - I am working on ideas that I will post if issue is solved.

OK, I have made a longer line release, similar to the length of a Riffe line release, tapering to the outer end. I wedged a small piece of rubber (cut with scissors from old band) in the forward part of line release slot in the wood. It works, don't know for how long, but gives me some ideas for permanent fix.

hi guys, i see the usual cast of characters so i will skip the introduction as this is my first post to this forum.

i don't want this to sound like i'm promoting my trigger mech and i'm only posting this to share information relative to this thread. when i started making guns i found the pinning of the line release was the second hardest thing to get right the first time (the first was the pinning of the mech itself). also, the need to move the line release to load the shaft was a pain although it's something one gets use to and does automatically it does add time when you need to load fast.

so i started tinkering with thing and came up with what i think is a simple solution. the line release is activated by a pin on the bottom of the sear, so when the sear is in the load (up) position the pin rotates forward pushing the line release backwards. when the gun is fired the sear drops the pin rotates back allowing the line release to move forward releasing the line.

it all works automatically, the shaft can be loaded without the need to move the line release backwards and there are no springs or extra parts needed.


here's a pic hope that helps.

steve

Metelin, unfortunately I didn't get a clear mental image from your description. If this system works then you promoting your trigger mech is most welcome. I would appreciate a more detailed explanation. Can this system be added to an existing trigger that was not originally designed for it? Do all your trigger mechs come with the automatic line release?

For those interested in the Riffe automatic line release.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/da4095/1-1.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/da4095/2-1.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s170/da4095/3.jpg

Metelin, unfortunately I didn't get a clear mental image from your description. If this system works then you promoting your trigger mech is most welcome. I would appreciate a more detailed explanation. Can this system be added to an existing trigger that was not originally designed for it? Do all your trigger mechs come with the automatic line release?

notice the pin in the bottom of the trigger mech in the pic, it's part of the sear (the part that locks the shaft in the mech). as the shaft is loaded the sear swings down to lock the shaft in place, when it does this the pin moves forward and it hits the rear of the line release which is in contact with it. the front of the line release (the part that sticks out of the gun) then pivots backwards to the load position.

when the gun is fired the sear swings up and the pin moves backwards allowing the line release to move forwards. both the sear and the line release are pivited so if one side moves forward the other moves back.
in the pic the mech is in the load position so the pin is forward, when fired it moves back.

all my mechs/guns use this system and unfortunately it can't be used on other mechs.

steve

Does your system demand even more precise installation than is usual for a line release? Do you have a jig that you sell with your trigger mechs for the mech and for the line release? If someone has pinned a normal line release before is it feasable that they'll be able to do yours without messing up the first time?

Steve sells a jig that also comes with the drill bits to use as well as instructions. I have his trigger in my gun, but I screwed up the line release installation but it still works like it is supposed to. His mech is easy, almost effortless to engage, not like the riffe were you have to bang the shaft in.

thanks for the kind words davey, and yes we do sell a jig (either open or enclosed for $10) that will help you pin the mech, mill the slot for the line release and pin it in place the first time. we don't spec the mech for more than 4-5 5/8'' bands but imo it's the easiest mech to install as well as use.

steve

What is the price for the complete set; mech, line release and jigs? I looked on your website but couldn't find it.

Dan, and anybody else interested. I also used Steve's mech and am very happy with how the line release turned out. You can see it installed in my gun here.... http://www.spearfishingplanet.com/showthread.php?t=1372&highlight=future+euro&page=2

Oooh you have that thing sitting flushhh.. I like that. I think I found the one. Did you plan the track like that or did it happen by chance? I mean is the spear still resting on the track close to the mech when it's in the loaded position?

Oooh you have that thing sitting flushhh.. I like that. I think I found the one. Did you plan the track like that or did it happen by chance? I mean is the spear still resting on the track close to the mech when it's in the loaded position?


If you are referring to my gun, the mech sits flush because its an enclosed track. I think most enclosed track guns are like that.

Haha, you got lucky. It depends on how deep you cut the track.

What is the price for the complete set; mech, line release and jigs? I looked on your website but couldn't find it.

trigger mech is 65 and includes the pins and line release. the jig is 10 and a remote trigger is also 10. sorry about the website, i'm in the process of redoing it so..... give me a call if you have questions 415 806 6285.

steve

Steve, I don't know you but it's a real pleasure to see someone pay such close attention to detail that others have neglected. Somhow I'm sure that if you took care to redesign the mech to accomodate an automatic line release then you didn't skimp out on the rest of the trigger. The price appears to be the best for that class trigger no? I most definitely would buy one for a gun project.

Steve - For the detail oriented among us, could you elaborate a little on the construction of your mechanism, or point me to another link if it exists somewhere else? What are the materials of construction? (housing, seer, & rivets). Cast or machined? Dimensions? What's that little tiny hole in the trigger for (push rod attachment maybe)? How long have you been making them?

Not trying to plunder your trade secrets, so feel free not to answer any of the above. I'm just always interested to see the minor differences between the different mechs, and would love to hear from the manufacturers why they made the particular choices that they did.

Steve - For the detail oriented among us, could you elaborate a little on the construction of your mechanism, or point me to another link if it exists somewhere else? What are the materials of construction? (housing, seer, & rivets). Cast or machined? Dimensions? What's that little tiny hole in the trigger for (push rod attachment maybe)? How long have you been making them?


the pic i sent is of an older version of the mech and the hole is a tool mark (the new version doesn't have it). the current version are water jet cut from 3/16'' thick 17-4ph and then hardened (sear and trigger), the housing is one piece .056''wt 304 and the pins are 3/16'' thick 304. dimensions of the mech are, .5''wx2.75''lx1''h (the hight dimension doesn't include the line release pin that protrudes from the bottom).

they are made by my neighbor who is a retired machinist, the mech has been around for about 4 years and has gone through several changes. he tests every one up to 750# and he expects to see a trigger sensitivity of around 6# at that level.

we spec them to 5 5/8'' bands max although we expect them to withstand more. here's a link of some tests bill kitto did of a preproduction unit (sear and trigger cut from 304) before we started the production run with the 17-4. http://ic_spearguns.tripod.com/testing.htm

hope that helps, let me know if you have any other questions.

steve

Thanks Steve, very informative. I like that the width is .5", instead of 15/32" like the Alexander. And I think the bottom pin to actuate the line release is one of those "elegantly simple" solutions. Is there a reason to choose 304 SS over 316 SS for the housing and pins? I know that both are similar in strength and will hold up fine structurally, but I thought 316 was a little more resistant to aesthetic surface rust and held its "shine" a little better.

Is the .056" wall a typo? Seems like it would be 0.156"?

Thanks Steve, very informative. I like that the width is .5", instead of 15/32" like the Alexander. And I think the bottom pin to actuate the line release is one of those "elegantly simple" solutions. Is there a reason to choose 304 SS over 316 SS for the housing and pins? I know that both are similar in strength and will hold up fine structurally, but I thought 316 was a little more resistant to aesthetic surface rust and held its "shine" a little better.

Is the .056" wall a typo? Seems like it would be 0.156"?

the .056'' is a typo it's actually .0625''. i know this sounds kinda thin but the riffe mech is about .045''wt. the 304 pins we have used from the beginning and haven't had any issues with corrosion if there is a problem this is something we can easily change.

steve

we spec them to 5 5/8'' bands max although we expect them to withstand more. here's a link of some tests bill kitto did of a preproduction unit (sear and trigger cut from 304) before we started the production run with the 17-4. http://ic_spearguns.tripod.com/testing.htm

Steve, am I reading the Kitto test right, or did your preproduction unit fail right at 250lbs of band pull? and then broke at 17xxlbs of pull?

Do you have any test results for the newest version of the mech?

Thanks

Steve, am I reading the Kitto test right, or did your preproduction unit fail right at 250lbs of band pull? and then broke at 17xxlbs of pull?

Do you have any test results for the newest version of the mech?

Thanks

hi oto, the "overload" he has on the initial unit he tested (under steve veros) means that he had a hard time pulling the trigger once the mech was under load and not that it failed to hold the shaft in place when loaded. i'm not sure why that was because we had been using that mech with 3 5/8'' bands (more than 300#) for several years with no complains of trigger pull with that load.

when we initially designed the mech we wanted it to as safe as possible so the interface angle (the point of contact between the sear and the trigger) was not as sloped as other units. we did this to assure our selves the trigger held the shaft in under load at the sacrifice of some trigger sensitivity and like i said no one ever complained.

although we test every unit to over 750#, when bill kitto offered to test all the mechs on the market we jumped at the chance to have our unit evaluated but someone with bills experience and unbiased opinion. so based on his input we decided the redesign the sear/trigger for better sensitivity while always keeping in mind our priority was and is safety first. we went through several versions before settling on the current model which is water jet cut from 17-4 based on the angels of the one that performed best under bills tests which is the one marked "posidon sub" on the this test page.

we dont intend this to be a blue water unit (lots of bands) but feel comfortable with the unit holding 5 5/8'' bands giving us enough room for safety. just to reiterate, the unit never failed to hold the shaft but the trigger sensitivity was not what other unit were capable of.

hope that helps.

steve