"Follow the Money - Follow the Power

The two greatest motives for man's actions are money and power. When you can't understand their actions, just follow the money and follow the power.

Much has been said about the financial and power motives of the new ownership of Spearboard. But what of the former mods and ownership of the newly formed spearfishingplanet.com?

Clearly a power struggle has occured here, and ultimately the owner of SB.com exercised his power to do as he wished. It is unfortunate that those who have supported this site, the FRA and our sport are now divided. The input of the 'old guard' will be missed, but not too badly since they're now playing elsewhere and anyone can drop in to see how they're doing.

And what of the money? The 'old guard' worked hard to create this site - which has now become a business more than a hobby. With the readership of 10,000 viewers this site is undoubtedly generating income for the owner. And with the creation of their new site, the 'old guard' now has the opportunity to compete and earn their share of the advertising pie.

But what of the behaviors of either side? Clearly both sides have valid reasons to be upset with the other during this 'escalating' conflict.

One thing I find interesting is that the new domain was created on July 2nd, 2007.
http://who.godaddy.com/WhoIsVerify....prog_id=godaddy

During the two week period since the new domain was registered, mods and/or 'old guard' members with 'ulterior motives' to begin their own site escalated their fights with Tony while remaining active on this site. Their interaction with the owner of this site allegedly became tense, hostile etc... during a time when mods/members were planning on leaving. Verbal attacks flew from mods and members who were planning on leaving. I received a PM from a gentleman I have never met or spoken with that stated that 100 members had been 'fired', together with an invitation to visit them at their new site. Were 100 members fired? or is that an exaggeration?

When I visited the new site, I was greeted with a thread so filled with bitter vitriolic that I immediately surmised the core membership, and/or the leadership, and/or the ownership of this site was intent on not only going their own way, but also 'seeking revenge' against Tony. How does that benefit our sport?

While I remain essentially neutral in the matter, what is most disturbing to me is that people who claim to love our sport are now taking pride in divisive and harmful actions aimed at splitting our unified force.

We need to remain unified in our efforts to protect and promote our sport.

We need to support the Fisherman's Right's Alliance.

We need to remain united, regardless as to 'which board we prefer'. Putting our differences aside, all spearfishing websites should seek to work together to protect our sport, rather than all this tiresome bickering and name calling.

People with no interest in contributing at all to this site continue to come here to complain - and promote another site. That's just poor form in my book. The new site is entirely capable of competing for membership honorably, without resorting to these tactics. Google 'spearfishing forum' and you'll find this site is organically ranked first. Let other sites do their marketing elsewhere - it's the honorable thing to do, AND it 'clears the airways' on Spearboard for the membership to get back to the business of enjoying spearfishing and protecting our rights.

This is my first comment on the matter, and will be my only one. I trust we can all co-exist and move forward."

As quoted on SB by "stabbinboy"

At least he changed it from the original version that he first posted.

I was a moderator at the old place I knew nothing about Spearfishingplanet or Worldspearfishing, until after tony had his meltdown and pulled the plug on spearboard.

I will respond later when I get back from work on stabbinboy's other false claims.

I don't even care any more. I bitched enough yesterday.

In short, people can interpret the facts to support whatever conclusion they wish.
I had NO idea that this site was in the works. I don't think many other people did either. I didn't hear about it until the day I was booted from SB.
To claim that this was some sort of master plan by this site's owners to cause people to undermine SB and bring this site into prominence is just absurd bullshit. Tony's behavior is taking care of that just fine. :)

Howie and Grauer have done nothing but discourage trashing of SB on this forum. It's clear that they, like many, don't like how things have unfolded over there, but they are staying above the fray. For that, I commend them.
And unlike SB, they ARE letting people speak their minds - and let's face it, Tony pissed a lot - a LOT - of people off that just needed to vent. Hence the thread of 'bitter vitriolic' that he refers to.

Just for the record, there were exactly 3 people that knew anything about the formation of this site, the two founders and one advisor. Not one single mod or member of SB or any other site were tipped or notified. We chose to go live last Thursday evening in order to maintain a place for the spearfishing community to openly communicate.

Actually money and power fall way behind passion on the list of motivations. This site was born out of love for a sport that we all live to enjoy. We hope everyone here feels the same about the need to protect, promote, and grow the sort of spearfishing.

I will...
disclaimer..The views are my opinions and of those whom may be in agereemnt w/ me:)

Times, dates etc. SB's exodus to here..are unimportant to what is a much BIGGER issue here......
I find it funny that some of the uninformed or those whom choose to put their heads in the sand respond so passionately for the man (TG) whom IMHO is spearfishings Judas...
HOWEVER I myself placed a pretty nasty post on SB yesterday under the moderator thread and told TG just how I felt. Devisive or not...Those of you whom dont recieve his publication may have missed the Goliath Gr. Article with TG diving and assisting Koenig (spearfishings mortal enemy).
The thrust I'm trying to make is TG ALLOWED the fox in the henhouse and when addressed VIGOROUSLY on SB threads were poofed or ignored. OR responded with a lame excuse of wanting to also include in the publication conservation issues..Well sportsfans...thats a tough pill to swallow for me and many others as conservancy is important however there are many others perspective TG could have called upon w/o sleeping with the enemy.
I have repeatedly watch FRA's needs and causes ignored..not blatently mind you because everyone would be bouncing off the walls..but a little more covertly..just not giving what resources are available etc. SB "was" a wonderful way of of getting "the word out" and by poofing threads (mine were personally) It was like feeding you enough as not to become malnourished but not enough to see you flourish.
Is there another agenda here?
Am I alone in my thinking?
Is anyone else as upset by this travesty?
I know that many have left as a result of the moderator issue but frankly I'm here because I WILL NOT SUPPORT ANY ENTITY THAT DOES NOT REPRESENT OUR CAUSE AND SPORT AS PASSIONATELY AS THE FRA AND INSURES OUR SPORT'S VITALITY BY NOT ASSITING THOSE WHOM SEEK IT"S DEMISE.

Those of you whom havent...

JOIN THE FRA!

I would like to respond first by saying the NOBODY is seeking revenge against TG or SB. That is a ludicrous idea. It is clear to most that some of the decisions that TG has made for SB and SFM have been detrimental to our sport and towards the existing WCC clubs, hence the creation of this site. It has been stated over and over again here that this site was created to unify the WCC clubs and the fight to protect our rights. IMO since TG has taken the helm at SB and SFM he has only done the opposite.

Nobody was planning (well maybe Chris and Howie) to leave SB. It was only until TG had a serious melt down and brought SB down with him. At that point he allowed other sites such as this one to fill the void that has been apparent for quite sometime now. I honestly had no clue to the origins of spearfishingplanet.com and it was the day before the meltdown that I asked TG to delete my SB account. I was so fed up with his wild censorship, favoritism, and “it’s my way or the highway” attitude that I was just finished with that place. I don’t need SB to spearfish. I think most will agree that SB has been on a downhill and slippery slope for quite awhile now.

We do need to support the FRA. I know it’ll be done here and most likely over there as well.

I didn't know about this site until I was already registered on worldspearfishing.com. Then it was brought up over there. And that wasn't until the day AFTER spearboard went down. That's not to say I'm always in the loop, but I'm pretty quick about things.
Besides, membership in a forum isn't ALL OR NONE. No one is required to be loyal only to one site. His accusations are absurd. I'm getting a little tired of this whole thing myself.

As the webmaster & part the admin of a web site that started with a dream & has grown at an incredible rate, I know for a fact that you can't ignore money with this place, or any other web site with growth & traffic.

It costs money to have it. It costs to run it. Software has to be bought, maintained, upgraded. Server costs must be paid. The hardware has to have enough bandwidth to keep the site running fast enough to be useable.

Even when all the people are unpaid volunteers, there are just some things you don't have a choice about & have to pay for. It amounts to thousands of $$$ per year, more as your membership grows & traffic increases.

It has to come from somewhere. The guy running the place is well enough off to just pay for it. or he comes up with a way to accept donations. Or he finds sponsors & sets up rates for what they can buy. Or he sponsors spearfishing tournaments with everything brought in above costs going to the site. More likely some combination of the above & maybe some things I didn't list.

It doesn't make him bad, or greedy or any of many other things people will say or imply. It's just the reality of what is, not what we wish would be.

I remember when"tampascott"started SB and a bunch of rejects from Scubaboard and FS ended up with place to finally talk about SPEARFISHING.
Without all the BS and thrashing we got on the other boards.

I had no doubt Scott would make a few bucks and eventually he would need help running it.I had no problems with sponsors helping out,business is business.Lately in the last year or so posts disparaging sponsors equipment were either poofed or given grief.When money starts to dictate content,peace out.
When Scott started out SB it was heavily populated with West Coast Fla guys and they did most of the posting but other guys,areas and methods were welcome,except Genesis.There was no good ol' boy system just sheer numbers and time on the net .Now it seems it's OK to piss on one guy cause he's either new or unpopular but speak ill of or to an "icon"and you get poofed or banned.When personality dictates content ,peace out.
I'll still post but like on FS and Scubaboard I have become a minority again.

Let the staff here take heed.This is the 4th place or more some of these guys have been regulars.Change can be for the better,but is not always either needed or appreciated.

As the webmaster & part the admin of a web site that started with a dream & has grown at an incredible rate, I know for a fact that you can't ignore money with this place, or any other web site with growth & traffic.

It costs money to have it. It costs to run it. Software has to be bought, maintained, upgraded. Server costs must be paid. The hardware has to have enough bandwidth to keep the site running fast enough to be useable.

Even when all the people are unpaid volunteers, there are just some things you don't have a choice about & have to pay for. It amounts to thousands of $$$ per year, more as your membership grows & traffic increases.

It has to come from somewhere. The guy running the place is well enough off to just pay for it. or he comes up with a way to accept donations. Or he finds sponsors & sets up rates for what they can buy. Or he sponsors spearfishing tournaments with everything brought in above costs going to the site. More likely some combination of the above & maybe some things I didn't list.

It doesn't make him bad, or greedy or any of many other things people will say or imply. It's just the reality of what is, not what we wish would be.



I mostly agree with you but maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
Are you saying that this community has a problem with someone making money off their website?
If so, I dont agree with that part. I have no problem with someone making money off thier website but I would stress that there is a fine line between sponsors running the site vs the community running the site.
Wouldnt you agree?

I have the impression that stabbinboy was trying to make it a problem that someone might make money from the site.

maybe someone is. I don't have a problem with that & it seems likely to me that most here won't either. My post was to make the point that even if the guy who started the site & all his help isn't going to make a dime, there are still bills to pay & the money for that has to come from somewhere.

For The Record - My side, My POV--- if it even matters

Once upon a time I wanted to start a website for h’n’l and divers
didn’t have the funds or knowledge, and FS already existed that dream was called www.fishndive.com

http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=fishndive.com

Time goes on

Scott decides he is fed up and starts SB, I moved over with the original group from FS, I went by Seaweed27 during those days.

Time goes on, we are all friends, a few speed bumps go by.

TG buys SB, things change abit, not in a good or bad way, but none the less it wasn’t the same place. As more time passed a sentiment started to spread that TG was taking advantage of the community's good faith and volunteers buy expecting them to support his tourney and Magazine. It was almost as if the support of the community was part of the purchase of SB. He didn’t do anything other than make purchase to garner our respect. Respect and loyalty is earned not purchased.

The final straw for me was the Koenig article. I have seen to many of my friends sacrifice so much in their personal and professional lives in the name of protecting the rights of fisherman and spear fisherman. And with that article he spit in theirs' and my face. I found a good domain name www.Spearfishingnews.com
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=spearfishingnews.com

I started looking with in the community for ideas and support. I didn’t get the support i expected... in fact I was advised against moving forward. It seemed that the everyone still wanted to give TG the benefit of the doubt and try to work with him. I put my ideas on ice and moved on with life.

I entered into a new business endeavour (a travel agency, www.adaptivetravel.com- http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=adaptivetravel.com) in which i thought might be beneficial to advertise on SB. I sent him a message requesting the cost to advertise and he replied with cost. I thought about it and what he want was more than I could responsibly afford with my startup $$, but i really wanted to test the water before I made a commitment. I replied offering less than he had requested for 3 months, but that if it worked out that I do a sign up for 1 year at his requested rate. I was hoping he would agree. I never heard from him again, when a simple no would have worked. I really felt like I wasn’t welcome at SB anymore, I had felt slighted again and finally.


I started talking to Howie about it, and he gave me the push i needed to move forward again. This time Spearfishingplanet.com was registered.
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=Spearfishingplanet.com
Our original intention was to launch this site after or at the St. Pete Open this year, not last Thursday (that is why no one knew what we were planning). But with sb site going down, there was a window of opportunity that couldn’t be ignored, Howie and I agreed to launch even if it took us forever.

I choose the initial moderators for several reasons, they are friends, they have experience, they are founders of the community, and they care about the sport and preserving it with a passion. Oh and of course the fact they were also recently unMODified. :p

SpearfishingPlanet.com is not in competition with SB, it just a place for spearos who felt SB didn’t fit into their lives any longer. I understand the hard feeling held those on the both sides, but it benefits neither groups, I encourage everyone to let it go. Let’s move on and restore cohesion to our community.

Anyways this is my perspective. If you don’t like it or even agree with it, that’s ok
I just wanted to get my side in

Chris

Good luck with the new site! I'll be lurking and posting a few reports now and then. I think you just need to take the high road and don't look back. None of the bickering and complaints mean anything now, and they are not worth the effort. It's kinda like kissing your ex-wife, why bother, there are way to many fish in the sea. :awink: If you want to make this the best site, shoot bigger fish, post em up and make this the best resource for speros and you will be the best. Again good luck and I'll post a trip report soon.

Chris

I appreciate your taking the time to address my post on the other site which was reposted here. Reading your response promoted me to 'sign up' to tell you thanks for clearing the air.

Apparently I was misinformed of a few events, which is not surprising with all the shite that's been flung lately. I think it would be a good idea to post all or part of your response on the other site as well so that everyone get's informed.

Regarding the FRA, Denny needs all of the help and support he can get. This is a real David & Goliath, challenging extremely well funded scientists and government agencies to give us accurate and fair regulations. And he does it all on a shoe-string budget. If you are reading this and want to help him, you can start by visiting his website http://thefra.org/, joining and making a donation to help protect your rights to fish.

I remain available to help promote the FRA however I can - even if it means pimpin' Petra to promote some more fundraisers :thumbup: and my boy Logan just bought some gumball vending machines, and will be donating a portion of the proceeds to the FRA as well.

Good luck with everything, and tell some of the guys who are still so upset to take it out on a few fish. They'll feel better and then we can all get back to enjoying and supporting this hobby.

Stabbin

Hey Todd glad you decided to stop by.

Chris

I appreciate your taking the time to address my post on the other site which was reposted here. Reading your response promoted me to 'sign up' to tell you thanks for clearing the air.

Apparently I was misinformed of a few events, which is not surprising with all the shite that's been flung lately. I think it would be a good idea to post all or part of your response on the other site as well so that everyone get's informed.

Regarding the FRA, Denny needs all of the help and support he can get. This is a real David & Goliath, challenging extremely well funded government agencies on a shoe-string budget. If you are reading this and want to help him, you can start by visiting his website http://thefra.org/, joining and making a donation to help protect your rights to fish.

I remain available to help promote the FRA however I can - even if it means pimpin' Petra to promote some more fundraisers. My 16 yo son just bought some gumball vending machines, and will be donating a portion of the proceeds to the FRA as well!

Good luck with everything, and tell some of the guys who are still so upset to take it out on a few fish. They'll feel better and then we can all get back to enjoying and supporting this hobby.

Stabbin



Todd, Glad you have been able to see through the smoke screen to what is really important!:toast:

thanks for your story chris. hopefully it will put to rest some of the false hoods.

jeep

I'm rather impressed by how well this place is coming along so fast, when it wasn't planned to go at all for a while.

I'm rather impressed by how well this place is coming along so fast, when it wasn't planned to go at all for a while.

I think that's because Chris hasn't slept yet.

Chris

I appreciate your taking the time to address my post on the other site which was reposted here. Reading your response promoted me to 'sign up' to tell you thanks for clearing the air.

Apparently I was misinformed of a few events, which is not surprising with all the shite that's been flung lately. I think it would be a good idea to post all or part of your response on the other site as well so that everyone get's informed.

Stabbin


I ve moved on, and not sure i even have permissions to post there any longer.
www.adaptivetravel.com
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=adaptivetravel.com

If people are willing to give me the benefit of the doubt they can read it here, and i hope they do. I cant tell you how much i appreciate it you replying.
Welcome
Chris

Peace, all.

Where can I pick up a pair of those cool socks bro? :D

Todd, I am very glad you stopped by and hope to read and see some of your trip reports.


NSEARC, You beet me to the sock comment!:rofl::rofl: Those are SWEET!

Chris, thanks for the explanation of events. That is the most cogent and levelheaded post I've seen on either forum about this whole ugly mess. You're a gentleman, and I wish you and Howie the best.

Sincerely,

Another Howie

Gamble,
They remind of some of the fashionable hosiery you've been known to wear...:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Gamble,
They remind of some of the fashionable hosiery you've been known to wear...:rofl::rofl::rofl:



What ever:chuck::FIREdevil:

Where can I pick up a pair of those cool socks bro? :D


target kmart the mall??

they work

Google 'spearfishing forum' and you'll find this site is organically ranked first. Let other sites do their marketing elsewhere - it's the honorable thing to do,

Stabbinboy,

I can only assume you're talking about me advertising World Spearfishing Guide on Google in the "sponsored links" section.

Do you think it's good practice to pour a ton of hard work into a business and not do any marketing?

Let me tell you something about me... I love designing websites, and I love spearfishing, that's why I started WorldSpearfishing.com and nolaspearfishing.com, because the efforts combine two things in life I'm passionate about doing. I also have websites in other areas of interest that I actually make money off of. My spearfishing sites have been up a year, and are just starting to cover their expenses in the past few months. I do all of the work creating these sites myself, because I can, and because I couldn't afford to pay anyone else to even if I wanted to.

I guess the "honorable thing to do" in your mind is just to build these things and let all of my effort go to waste because nobody will ever know about them. :smthumbup: Good idea!

Btw, I've been marketing these sites for the past 6 mos, and they've been up for over a year; but nothing has ever been controversial until all this cr** with Spearboard.

The websites I own don't make enough money to support me and my family; I still have a "day job" and most of my off-time is spent working on my sites or spearfishing. Maybe one day I'll make enough from my websites to turn my hobby into my full time gig. That will be nice if it ever happens.

If you ever want to know more about "marketing" and why we do it (bidding on keywords...etc..) give me a call, and I'll explain it to you. Search engine marketing is the most cost effective means of bringing targeted traffic to a website.

Chris Hartwell
504-220-7418

Is there a smiley for brown-nose?