Bill,

Apparently these 2 guys are (were) illegal Aliens, I guess Mr. Horn deported them for good.





http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5359290.html

Dec. 7, 2007, 1:23AM
2 shot in Pasadena here illegally
1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a burglary ring


By ROBERT CROWE
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Pasadena protests collide Two burglary suspects shot by a Pasadena homeowner last month were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said Thursday.

Authorities also said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.

The two — killed by a Pasadena man Nov. 14 after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property — were in the country illegally, according to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Joe Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.

Pasadena Police Department Capt. A.H. "Bud" Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett said.

Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.

Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.

State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime ring, Corbett said.

Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn shot them.

Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.

"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and suspects, Corbett said.

Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house about four months ago.

"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.

A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.

"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."

Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.

Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.

Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont Parkway.

Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists and other neighbors.

Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.

Chronicle reporter Susan Carroll contributed to this report.

robert.crowe@chron.com

It's a shame those scary illegals don't do anything good for our country. It's kind of like the jews bringing diseases/plagues to Germany and blacks dating your white woman if they get their own rights. Nothing good can come of it...

Remember Manuel Cordova
Dec. 6, 2007 12:00 AM

Illegal immigrant.

Fighting words.

Unwelcome people.

But people, nonetheless.

The act of one of those people on Thanksgiving Day saved a little boy's life.

You've heard the story. Manuel Jesus Cordova, 26, was walking across the desert when he came across 9-year-old Christopher Buchleitner, whose mother died in a car crash.

The child was alone. The man had been walking for two days, on his way to find work. Illegally.

He stopped. Gave the child his sweater, built a fire and stayed with the little boy through the night. They didn't speak the same language, but he made the child comfortable. He watched him as he slept.

Authorities said if it hadn't been for this illegal immigrant, the child might have died.

Help came. The child was rescued and Cordova was returned to Mexico. He came to the border Tuesday to pick up a certificate of appreciation for what he did.

He talked of the night he became a hero. He said he'd been afraid that nobody would come to help the boy. Before he met the child, his fears had been precisely the opposite. He didn't want to be found then. His goal then had been to evade detection and get to a job.

Funny, isn't it, how human beings change their plans to help each other?

Funny, too, how the current debate over illegal immigration focuses on the negative and forgets the human.

Remembering that illegal immigrants can be decent human beings doesn't change the need to reform a broken immigration system. But it could change the tone of the diatribes about the problem.

It should do that.

Rep. Raul Grijalva plans to introduce legislation that would allow Cordova to get a special visa and come here to work. That probably won't happen. But Grijalva deserves credit for trying.

As Arizona works through the challenges of being a border state at a time when the federal government's failure to deal with illegal immigration has resulted in crisis, Cordova - this illegal immigrant - has already done important work here.

He saved a child.

He reminded Arizona that undocumented immigrants are people with the same range of good and bad attributes as any other group of people.

This illegal alien killed 4 people.

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/001891.html

Illegal Aliens kill far more US Citizens than they save.

It is a fact, care to try and disprove it?

Is it possible to beat this poor horse any more?? Agree to disagree and move on........................

Is it possible to beat this poor horse any more?? Agree to disagree and move on........................

Billy Mac had said he didn't hear that these guys were illegals, so I posted a link to a news story about it.

Billy Mac had said he didn't hear that these guys were illegals, so I posted a link to a news story about it.

Good for you Bret. I'm sure you wish you could have been there to watch them die.

Good for you Bret. I'm sure you wish you could have been there to watch them die.

That's just wrong...

That's just wrong...

Yes it is, but we can't change the way he feels. He has constantly gloried in the fact that Horn "deported them for good." He has said how great it is that they died for committing burglary, especially since they were illegal.

They were not human lives lost- they were just things that deserved to die. I don't know how he could make it more clear.

Yes it is, but we can't change the way he feels. He has constantly gloried in the fact that Horn "deported them for good." He has said how great it is that they died for committing burglary, especially since they were illegal.

They were not human lives lost- they were just things that deserved to die. I don't know how he could make it more clear.

Maybe Bret is just frustrated with the situation. Knowing him, I know that he is a good guy and probably does not take joy in people dying when it comes right down to it. But, Horn had more right to go out into his front yard than those guys had to steal from his neighbor. Obviously, none of us was there and all we heard was a 911 call that seemed to indicated Horn may have been trigger happy. As far as I know, he still has not been charged with a crime. Therefore, I must conclude for now that Horn was justified. Those guys must have gone from being thiefs to being a threat to life at some point, or else Horn would be sitting his ass in jail.

I have no sympathy for someone who gets killed in such a case. Two less trouble makers in my mind. Maybe we will think differently in the future, but for now, how can you sit around and give two illegal immigrants in the commision of a crime the benefit of the doubt? The sacredness of life should only be reserved for those who feel the same way IMO.

Yes it is, but we can't change the way he feels. He has constantly gloried in the fact that Horn "deported them for good." He has said how great it is that they died for committing burglary, especially since they were illegal.

They were not human lives lost- they were just things that deserved to die. I don't know how he could make it more clear.

Can we agree on the fact that Horn didn't "coyote" these 2 to his area,give 'em access to his neighbor's home, all so he could have an excuse to shoot a couple wet backs?They are dead due to all the steps they took to put themselves in that situation.It's all on them.

Can we agree on the fact that Horn didn't "coyote" these 2 to his area,give 'em access to his neighbor's home, all so he could have an excuse to shoot a couple wet backs?They are dead due to all the steps they took to put themselves in that situation.It's all on them.

The teenager that burglarized my house chose to get addicted to drugs. He chose to break into many other houses in the neighborhood. His mother worked for the cable company and he stole all the cable boxes she had stored at home and sold them. He took all the steps to put him in the situation of going out of my house with some of my stuff.

I'm glad no one took it upon himself to execute the kid. If someone had, it would have all on him, just as it was all on Horn.

If someone chooses to break into my home;for the safety of my family, I am NOT about to assume they are there to simply gather up some items for pawn.That'd be a suckers bet.
Innocents being killed and/or raped during a home invasion or burglary(when the burglar realizes the home is occupied...JACKPOT) isn't exactly an annomally.It happens.Imagine if Horn's neighbors had been home.What then ?Would these turds have gone on down the road or gone ahead with their intentions with innocent blood shed ?We will never know and they won't get the chance to weigh their options.

And I would bet that legal citizens of the US kill more of their fellow citizens than illegals do. Once we have rounded up and deported all of the illegals I suggest we then clear this country of all the legal citizens. Once we have depopulated this great country, then and only then will it be safe.

And I would bet that legal citizens of the US kill more of their fellow citizens than illegals do. .

Perhaps,but getting 'em the fuq out would sure put a dent in it.


Feel free to read 'Illegal Alien Crime Wave' by Heather MacDonald at City Journal(.org I think). Tried to show it here but I am a 'puter dumb arse.
Anyway,I know in LA County something like 95% of all homicide arrest warrants are issued for undocumented criminals.And feel free to look up La Raza;good old fashioned Mexican Nationalism that includes taking most of the American southwest,which has resulted in attacks on black Americans in SoCal with some pretty scary results.Looking at the BOLO from the San Diego gang intelligence unit as we speak.

I have no sympathy for someone who gets killed in such a case.

Ditto.

Back around 1995, we were having a real problem with burglaries & home invasions in TN. The DA for the state went on all the TV news shows & did interviews about it. To sum it up he quite plainly said:

"Look, if you are in the business of breaking into peoples homes or are thinking about it, you need to know that you can be killed for it. Residents have the legal right to defend their homes. They can use deadly force to prevent your entry. If you are trying to force your way into someones residence uninvited and they kill you, they will be within their legal rights to do so. And my office will not be prosecuting them for it.

It's a very dangerous business. I'm here now to make sure that people doing it have been warned of that fact & that residents are aware of what they can do in the event they find themselves being victimized."

Yanno, that suits me fine. Breaking into peoples homes should be dangerous to those doing it. I have a very pragmatic attitude about this stuff. If you choose to engage in an activity, you willingly assume the risks of that activity. So if you choose to engage in crime, whatever happens to you as a consequence is just too friggin' bad for you.

BTW, right after that DA did all those interviews, the state of TN saw a sudden & dramatic drop in those crimes.

Perhaps,but getting 'em the fuq out would sure put a dent in it.

I agree just pointing out that there are a lot of scum bags who are citizens here that we should put on that train leaving town.

"Look, if you are in the business of breaking into peoples homes or are thinking about it, you need to know that you can be killed for it. Residents have the legal right to defend their homes. They can use deadly force to prevent your entry. If you are trying to force your way into someones residence uninvited and they kill you, they will be within their legal rights to do so. And my office will not be prosecuting them for it.



And I agree. But its not petinent to this case. They didn't break into the killer's home. There has not even been any information that they took a step in his direction, but if they did, he set that up by going outside against the advice of law enforcement.

If you are coming into my home and I'm there, I'm scared shitless and have a right to defend myself. If you go into my neighbor's home and are on the way out, you are no danger to me, and I'm not looking for excuses to shoot people.

If I'm in my house, on my property, I don't give a damn what a 9-11 operator tells me. That yard is *my* property & if I want to step out in it I will. I'm not a cop & I don't take orders from cops just bc they give them, particularly over the phone when they're not cops, quite, and I'm on my own property. They're cops. They work for me. Early on in this discussion it was said that he didn't shoot until they came towards him. Whether true or not I'm not sure, but that seems to contradict your claim that they never took a step towards him.

He stated they came onto his property. I'm kind of on the fence about this issue, but the report that they were here illegally, and were convicted felons makes me feel better about the whole thing.

It is very sad to see this argument goes on and on on the immigrant nation that build on immigration, maybe every body needs to look at really where they came from, since everybody in this country immigrant one way or other besides the Indians that have being killed and removed from their own land

It is very sad to see this argument goes on and on on the immigrant nation that build on immigration, maybe every body needs to look at really where they came from, since everybody in this country immigrant one way or other besides the Indians that have being killed and removed from their own land


The topic is ILLEGAL immigrants.Undocumented,jumping-in-front of legal immigrants,Kaan.
And even the "Native" Americans came here by way of the land bridge on the Bering Sea.So.....Ain't nobody here that sprung up from the dust or made from a rib.

The topic is ILLEGAL immigrants.Undocumented,jumping-in-front of legal immigrants,Kaan.
And even the "Native" Americans came here by way of the land bridge on the Bering Sea.So.....Ain't nobody here that sprung up from the dust or made from a rib.

OK
just the stirr the s**** up
I bet they did not asked those indians crossed over berring sea to provide a document or to europian crossed the atlantic ocean. Probably brent will take this seriously. But any how those people are crossing the border, becouse there is a need for service they provide simple is that. Dont you think most powerfull nation would be able to control its border otherwise? Come on we can get the some of the terorist at anywhere in the world with such a high tech equipment we could not get few guys from Mexico? it is a joke they crossed those border simply we allowed them to cross over. Who do you think picks all those goods from El Centro valley, Cochella Valley or central valley in California? hell even here in Alabama lots of farmers use those guys common get real we really need them. In return after a while they progress and want more and start to wonders other jobs you know we all have the same dreams live a little bit better and provide more for our family I connot blame them only thing I could blame is policies take them from home to farlands just like to europians did since the Cristoff Colomb. If you did not have enough to provide your family wont you do anything to make sure your kids are OK even if its mean to crossed some imaginery line? thats all they are doing. As far is the crime yes it may be true lots of crime but they live in such a poor neighborhoods crime will happing no matter what, whetter poor white neighborhoods or black or brown, it is all about economy if they can afford to live Beverly Hills I am sure they would not be involved in any crime. You konw some time we take ourself from reallty so far we forgat what is it outside of our world
Like the french quinn saying during the revolution if they can find a bred, why arent they eating a cake?

[QUOTE=Kaan;42282]OK
But any how those people are crossing the border, becouse there is a need for service they provide simple is that. QUOTE]


So...they're coming here out of a sense of duty ? Mighty nice of 'em.

Kaan,I work in the federal justice system.About 12 years ago when I began my career,I started with a guy who came here in a trunk of a car when he was 16 and later became a citizen.I think through marriage or whatever.Today,this guy is Federal Air Marshal.
Now,here is the problem;during the extensive background investigation,investigators could only verify so much due to disparities in birth records and criminal records maintained in Mexico.See the problem ? This guy is in a critical post,and yet we only know so much about him.On the other hand,for my various clearances they can trace me ALL the way back to birth;and to some degree before birth.Well,not me but you get the gist...
So,times have changed from the time of Plymouth Rock.We need to know who's here.

There has not even been any information that they took a step in his direction, but if they did, he set that up by going outside against the advice of law enforcement.


A 911 Operator is not law enforcement.

[QUOTE=Kaan;42282]OK
But any how those people are crossing the border, becouse there is a need for service they provide simple is that. QUOTE]


So...they're coming here out of a sense of duty ? Mighty nice of 'em.

Kaan,I work in the federal justice system.About 12 years ago when I began my career,I started with a guy who came here in a trunk of a car when he was 16 and later became a citizen.I think through marriage or whatever.Today,this guy is Federal Air Marshal.
Now,here is the problem;during the extensive background investigation,investigators could only verify so much due to disparities in birth records and criminal records maintained in Mexico.See the problem ? This guy is in a critical post,and yet we only know so much about him.On the other hand,for my various clearances they can trace me ALL the way back to birth;and to some degree before birth.Well,not me but you get the gist...
So,times have changed from the time of Plymouth Rock.We need to know who's here.

well I am not against to know who is here.
as far as the guy got a job as a federal air marshall, if what you saying is true he would not get that job, if the problem for him to get such a good job then we need to get over it since he is a citizen and take that very seriously as much as the taking a job that he would pay back to this country by serving in such a job, I dont see nothing wrong with that either it is just show second generation allways blend in the crowd much better just like happing before with, Italian, German,Irish and many other different ethnic group. This is why America is strong diversity in our lives. Remember same hate Irish, Italians faced in first generation then who questions them today?
this will happen with latino as well. We should proud the fact this is a still desirable country for many.Also I dont want you to get me wrong I am not trying to advocate illigal immigration, I am just to try to understand what brings them here and why? I f some one put a policy and can enforced that where no more illegals be my guest I dought that will ever happen, as long as those rich republicans needs them, you know how funny rebuplican can never be in line with democrats but when it comes to this issue they all want to same. But of course for different reasons, ones concerns are human others strictly economic

[QUOTE=Aaron Proffitt;42284]

well I am not against to know who is here.
as far as the guy got a job as a federal air marshall, if what you saying is true he would not get that job, if the problem for him to get such a good job then we need to get over it since he is a citizen and take that very seriously as much as the taking a job that he would pay back to this country by serving in such a job, I dont see nothing wrong with that either it is just show second generation

My point is,Kaan;if your credit is bad =no security clearance.DUI=no security clearance.Recent marijuana use=no security clearance.Misdemeanor domestic violence=no security clearance.Ever suffered from or diagnosed with depression=no security clearance.
Now,I have to be able to account for my whereabouts and origin every 5 years;but this guy has a block of his life that cannot be verified or accounted for.Big problem on a personnel security level.

[QUOTE=Kaan;42287]

My point is,Kaan;if your credit is bad =no security clearance.DUI=no security clearance.Recent marijuana use=no security clearance.Misdemeanor domestic violence=no security clearance.Ever suffered from or diagnosed with depression=no security clearance.
Now,I have to be able to account for my whereabouts and origin every 5 years;but this guy has a block of his life that cannot be verified or accounted for.Big problem on a personnel security level.

I will not argue this point it seems like you know much more about this my suggestion is I tough if you cant get background check you could not be come a citizen let alone being a federal agent. I would not have any problem for some one not being able to get a position that would jepordize public safety if their background cant be verified, this would not make him a suspect of course

It is very sad to see this argument goes on and on on the immigrant nation that build on immigration, maybe every body needs to look at really where they came from, since everybody in this country immigrant one way or other besides the Indians that have being killed and removed from their own land

I think you're being naive. My parents were both immigrants. They were here legally. We do have immigration- it is just in a controlled manner. There is a legal process for it.

I think you're being naive. My parents were both immigrants. They were here legally. We do have immigration- it is just in a controlled manner. There is a legal process for it.

Not only yours but every ones parent was a immigrant that is exactly my point. Legal or illegal they all have the same goal. no one comes here for nice weather. once again I am not advocating illigal entries, but I do understand them why they do it.If you can stop it fine, but I dought that can be done till the rich mans say we dont need them, not when you say it.

If I'm in my house, on my property, I don't give a damn what a 9-11 operator tells me. That yard is *my* property & if I want to step out in it I will. I'm not a cop & I don't take orders from cops just bc they give them, particularly over the phone when they're not cops, quite, and I'm on my own property. They're cops. They work for me.

Well sure. If you are looking for an excuse to kill someone, then I guess you do have a right to step into your own yard and try to set it up. And that's exactly how you sound to me. But just because you have a right to set up a situation in which you have the right to kill, does it follow that you have an obligation to do so? After all, it seems like at least a minute elapsed on the tape before we hear the cops outside, so he had to hurry before they got there and handled it the way we hope things get handled. Or at least that's the way I hope they get handled.

I guess I really am naive. I thought I lived in a country in which we relied on a judicial system to enforce the law, but you seem to want to go back to the wild west days when people took the law into their own hands.

Early on in this discussion it was said that he didn't shoot until they came towards him. Whether true or not I'm not sure, but that seems to contradict your claim that they never took a step towards him.

Bret has said it from the start, but he was reading the same things that all of us were reading. He just wants to excuse the killing any way he can. After all, they were illegal immigrants.

The way I recall the tape, there was no pause at all between the guy yelling and shooting. It hardly seems that they had the chance to do anything. He had told the operator he was going to kill them, and he did.

For the love of Pete guys com on........... What I find sad are the first three posts under new posts on a spearfishng website are from the damn politics and religion section. I vote we change it to the bitch,, whine and argue section.

:rofl::rofl:For the love of Pete guys com on........... What I find sad are the first three posts under new posts on a spearfishng website are from the damn politics and religion section. I vote we change it to the bitch,, whine and argue section.
Arguing for some people its like a adrenalin shots it give you boost, or you may call it birthdefects too, if you wish:))

Not only yours but every ones parent was a immigrant that is exactly my point.

Actually, my parents are not immigrants. They were born here. So were their parents and their parents and their parents and so on back to before the revolutionary war. So, I do not feel one bit like an immigrant. But, I'm more than happy to welcome legal immigrants according to the law. Otherwise, not so much:whistle:

Good for you Bret. I'm sure you wish you could have been there to watch them die.

No Bill, I do not wish I was there to watch them die.

I wish they never came into the US illegally.

I wish the one guy who was deported wouldn't have came back into the US Illegally.

I wish they never broke into the guys house.

I wish when Horn told them to freeze, they wouldn't have done anything to make him feel he was being threatened by them.

I wish they would have survived their wounds and then tried by the judicial system.

I wish the 2 guys would have came into the United States Legally and been a productive member of society, instead of criminals and a burden on the US.

To be honest, I wish Horn never heard the glass break and he wouldn't have known what was going on, but I wouldn't mind having him as a neighbor, because obviously he watches out for his neighbors, even if he doesn't know them, BTW somewhere it was posted or assumed he was a racist, yet his neighbors are Vietnamese, if the guy was a racist, wouldn't he be happy they were getting ripped off?

Christ almight Bill, do you get headaches from twisting things to fit your pre conceptions?

Please tell me where I ever indicated that I want to set things up to kill someone. You're real fucking good setting up these bullshit straw men.

I've owned guns for decades. Some specific guns have been in my possession for over 30 years now. Doncha think that if I wanted to set things up to kill someone I woulda goddamned done it by now? Just once?

I repeat: The cops are NOT my boss & 9-11 operators are damned sure not in charge of me. They are civil servants working for the taxpayers. That would be me. I give a damn about crime in my neighborhood. If I see or hear something going down next door I'm going to check it out & do what I think, in my judgment as the man on the scene, what if anything needs to be done. Anything a 9-11 operator or anyone else miles away tells me to do is a suggestion, period. I will follow that suggestion if & only if it makes sense to me to do so.

Your approach to crime is, based on your posts, to not get involved personally. Hide inside the house. Let others handle it. If they do. Well, that's fine. As I said before it's a highly personal decision. But not everyone does or will agree with you. Some people are more proactive. They are willing to get up, go look & do something about it.

IMO, not doing anything simply encourages more crime. That's an opinion, obviously you disagree. But just bc you do so, do us all a little favor & drop the "you're just looking for an excuse to kill some" BULLSHIT.

Do I think someone should die for breaking into a home? Not necessarily. Am I going to lose sleep when someone does get killed for doing it? Nope, not a bit. They assumed the risk of liability when they chose to do it.

To me, a live good guy & a dead bad guy is a preferable outcome, compared to dead good guy & live bad guy. Or even live good guy & live bad guy, bad guy having gotten away, free to do it again.

Actually, my parents are not immigrants. They were born here. So were their parents and their parents and their parents and so on back to before the revolutionary war. So, I do not feel one bit like an immigrant. But, I'm more than happy to welcome legal immigrants according to the law. Otherwise, not so much:whistle:

So would it be safe to say some of your blood line found the continent? before the central asian crossed over berring sea? otherwise you would be carrying some immigrant blood as well.
and yes you absolutly right no one should feel immigrants speccially the ones beilieve in any religion. I dont beilieve any religion advocate difference in any humanbeing.Immigration it self existed thousands of years and it will go on and on as long as humankind exist.lets take scenerio say this global warming gets where it is all north America under ice, and you can not sustain your life and your families, are you gonna asked the mexican or latin american if you could live there? I bet not. you`ll do whatever to survive.Looked at this way who against immigration mostly? I could say easily its the republican base, yet they will televised their presidential campaign in spanish from Miami.yesterday was a Italians,Irishs, Germans and today is Mexicans who knows who will be next?

So would it be safe to say some of your blood line found the continent? before the central asian crossed over berring sea? otherwise you would be carrying some immigrant blood as well.
and yes you absolutly right no one should feel immigrants speccially the ones beilieve in any religion. I dont beilieve any religion advocate difference in any humanbeing.Immigration it self existed thousands of years and it will go on and on as long as humankind exist.lets take scenerio say this global warming gets where it is all north America under ice, and you can not sustain your life and your families, are you gonna asked the mexican or latin american if you could live there? I bet not. you`ll do whatever to survive.Looked at this way who against immigration mostly? I could say easily its the republican base, yet they will televised their presidential campaign in spanish from Miami.yesterday was a Italians,Irishs, Germans and today is Mexicans who knows who will be next?

It is safe to say some of my blood line found the continent. And, it's safe to say that there are no people on the face of the planet who live in the house that sits on the ground where their pre-historic ancestor lived in a tree.

Way back when, there was a fine line between immigrant and conquerer. These days, there is no place for conquerers in this country. Assimilate or leave are the choices. Nothing else is acceptable to most Americans. Even those who just got here a generation ago.

Assimilate - To absorb (immigrants or a culturally distinct group) into the prevailing culture.

Kaan,

I think you are confusing our dislike of illegal immigrants, with people who immigrate here legally.

I have no problem with legal immigrants.

I have a major problem with illegal immigration.

Why should people who follow the rules have to wait a long time and jump through a bunch of hoops, and then an illegal alien cuts in front of everyone and gets citizenship?

Judging your posts, I think I can safely assume you are an immigrant to the US, I am also guessing you came here legally, (I may be wrong and you may have been here longer than me, I am 42) why should someone else be able to come here illegally and get asylum, when you followed the law and they did not?

Every generation has its form of racism that is masked by the excuse of protecting the greater good. Why do we attempt to persecute the minority, when the majority is the one causing the problems?

The Native Americans couldn't be allowed to roam their land because they were savages and had to be controlled. They'd spread disease and kill the innocent white folks if they were allowed to be free.

The South couldn't allow the blacks to be free men because it would ruin the economy and a freed black man would rape and kill our women.

The Nazi's had to stop the Jews from taking over the country, because they filled important jobs like bankers, lawyers and doctors. What jobs were the everyday Germans supposed to fill, if the Jews were taking all the important ones?

I'm sure the supporters of the above listed atrocities could list "proof" that their arguments were correct. But does it make it right?

Every generation has its form of racism that is masked by the excuse of protecting the greater good. Why do we attempt to persecute the minority, when the majority is the one causing the problems?

The Native Americans couldn't be allowed to roam their land because they were savages and had to be controlled. They'd spread disease and kill the innocent white folks if they were allowed to be free.

The South couldn't allow the blacks to be free men because it would ruin the economy and a freed black man would rape and kill our women.

The Nazi's had to stop the Jews from taking over the country, because they filled important jobs like bankers, lawyers and doctors. What jobs were the everyday Germans supposed to fill, if the Jews were taking all the important ones?

I'm sure the supporters of the above listed atrocities could list "proof" that their arguments were correct. But does it make it right?

What does this have to do with not liking illegal aliens? :confused:

I have no problem with legal immigrants.

I don't like criminals (Unless they are Debra Lafave) whether they are legal citizens or illegal aliens.

Kaan,

I think you are confusing our dislike of illegal immigrants, with people who immigrate here legally.

I have no problem with legal immigrants.

I have a major problem with illegal immigration.

Why should people who follow the rules have to wait a long time and jump through a bunch of hoops, and then an illegal alien cuts in front of everyone and gets citizenship?

Judging your posts, I think I can safely assume you are an immigrant to the US, I am also guessing you came here legally, (I may be wrong and you may have been here longer than me, I am 42) why should someone else be able to come here illegally and get asylum, when you followed the law and they did not?

Brent I said this before many many times, if you go back and read my posts you`ll see it. I am not advocating illigal immigration, however I do symphatize with their circumstanses. All I said is when you are in a situation you can not feed your self and familiy laws are irrelevent. First you must survive this is same for you, me and those are living in the south. Remember that airplane went done in south america with bunch of young athletes in it, they and up eating each other even though they all were well educated and rich, its all about survivel and trying to better your life! As long as those rich old republican bussiness needs a cheap labor source illigal immigration will continue, how you and I feel is irrelevent. How those rich people feel generally makes the policy. Look at the last immigration amnesty correct me if I am wrong, but I think that amnesty passed by Reagon administration why?
bc those rich bussinessman want it that way. I am very sure Ronald Reagon did not pushed amnesty bc he was thinking he will get the latino votes.

Every generation has its form of racism that is masked by the excuse of protecting the greater good. Why do we attempt to persecute the minority, when the majority is the one causing the problems?

I'm sure the supporters of the above listed atrocities could list "proof" that their arguments were correct. But does it make it right?


Nobody is persecuting the minority here. We are talking about illegal immigrants. Considering your job, I doubt you would have little trouble defining the word "illegal". Give it a rest dude. American citizens are certainly causing problems for themselves. That is completely unrelated to illegal immigrants breaking the law, comitting crimes and causing problems in someone else's country. How this plain and obvious fact has you convinced you are reading the words of racists is beyond me.

Why do so many Americans feel the need to apologize for their existance. If we aren't apologizing to the rest of the world for something, we're apologizing to our own people. Some idiots out there are apologizing to trees and plants and furry creatures. Baffling.

Brent I said this before many many times, if you go back and read my posts you`ll see it. I am not advocating illigal immigration, however I do symphatize with their circumstanses. All I said is when you are in a situation you can not feed your self and familiy laws are irrelevent. First you must survive this is same for you, me and those are living in the south. Remember that airplane went done in south america with bunch of young athletes in it, they and up eating each other even though they all were well educated and rich, its all about survivel and trying to better your life! As long as those rich old republican bussiness needs a cheap labor source illigal immigration will continue, how you and I feel is irrelevent. How those rich people feel generally makes the policy. Look at the last immigration amnesty correct me if I am wrong, but I think that amnesty passed by Reagon administration why?
bc those rich bussinessman want it that way. I am very sure Ronald Reagon did not pushed amnesty bc he was thinking he will get the latino votes.

Kaan,

A lot of the illegal immigrants that come here, do so to make money and send it back to their home country, they never intend to assimilate into this country, they come here for the benefits they can extract from it.

Many of the illegal aliens also commit heinous crimes while they are here, we already have enough problems with crime from the legal citizens, we don't need more crime from people who do not belong here.

Ronald Reagan passed the amnesty plan for political reasons, along with it was supposed to be increased border security, it never happened, why should we do it again?

Why should the US give amnesty to millions of people who already broke the law?

Why not allow decent law abiding immigrants the chance to become citizens instead?

It is safe to say some of my blood line found the continent. And, it's safe to say that there are no people on the face of the planet who live in the house that sits on the ground where their pre-historic ancestor lived in a tree.

Way back when, there was a fine line between immigrant and conquerer. These days, there is no place for conquerers in this country. Assimilate or leave are the choices. Nothing else is acceptable to most Americans. Even those who just got here a generation ago.

Assimilate - To absorb (immigrants or a culturally distinct group) into the prevailing culture.

but we must allow them to assumulate, just like any other ethnic groups we done in the past and it is being proved meltingpot idea is work well starting with second generations, Look they will adjust and assimulate this done before with Italians,germans, Irish and many others. I think this Immigration issue its comes up as a scape goat for our adminisrations policies, such as take care of the economy, taking us from budget surplus to highest deficit we ever seing. Not to mention the unjustified war we all paying for

but we must allow them to assumulate, just like any other ethnic groups we done in the past and it is being proved meltingpot idea is work well starting with second generations, Look they will adjust and assimulate this done before with Italians,germans, Irish and many others. I think this Immigration issue its comes up as a scape goat for our adminisrations policies, such as take care of the economy, taking us from budget surplus to highest deficit we ever seing. Not to mention the unjustified war we all paying for

A lot of the legal immigrants do not assimilate, why would the illegal aliens assimilate?

Kaan,

A lot of the illegal immigrants that come here, do so to make money and send it back to their home country, they never intend to assimilate into this country, they come here for the benefits they can extract from it.

Many of the illegal aliens also commit heinous crimes while they are here, we already have enough problems with crime from the legal citizens, we don't need more crime from people who do not belong here.

Ronald Reagan passed the amnesty plan for political reasons, along with it was supposed to be increased border security, it never happened, why should we do it again?

Why should the US give amnesty to millions of people who already broke the law?

Why not allow decent law abiding immigrants the chance to become citizens instead?

what you saying is not much different then I am saying, I did not say lets grant them citizenship. I did not say we should not control our borders.
if the existing laws are enforced we should not have this problem.
but as long as demands for cheap labor this will be continue.

What does this have to do with not liking illegal aliens? :confused:

I have no problem with legal immigrants.

I don't like criminals (Unless they are Debra Lafave) whether they are legal citizens or illegal aliens.

The issue I have is that you spend so much time and effort hating a specific group (illegal Latinos), especially when they make up such a small minority of the U.S. population. I know your argument is that they spend a majority of our tax dollars and committ a majority of our crimes, but I can tell you the same argument was used by Hitler, the supporters of slavery and the Indian Removal Act.

Hitler didn't initially want to exterminate Jews, he just wanted them out of his homeland and wanted Germans to fill the jobs that they held. But he continued to spew his hate and dislike for Jews who were holding German jobs illegally. His eventual solution was make laws to round them up and place them in their own neighborhoods. Obviously the rest is history.

Some idiots out there are apologizing to trees and plants and furry creatures. Baffling.

:lol:

This issue I have is that you spend so much time and effort hating a specific group (illegal Latinos), especially when they make up such a small minority of the U.S. population. I know your argument is that they spend a majority of our tax dollars and committ a majority of our crimes, but I can tell you the same argument was used by Hitler, the supporters of slavery and the Indian Removal Act.

Hitler didn't initially want to exterminate Jews, he just wanted them out of his homeland and wanted Germans to fill the jobs that they held. But he continued to spew his hate and dislike for Jews who were holding German jobs illegally. His eventual solution was make laws to round them up and place them in their own neighborhoods. Obviously the rest is history.

Where I have picked on any specific group of Illegal Aliens?

Ever hear of Godwins Law?

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/5565.html

Jerry Kilgore and Godwin’s law
Posted October 18th, 2005 at 12:53 pm
Share This | Spotlight | Permalink

As I understand it, “Godwin’s Law” (aka “Godwin’s rule of Nazi analogies”) basically says the first side that brings up Hitler in a political debate loses. With this in mind, I think Virginia gubernatorial candidate Jerry Kilgore (R) has a problem.

After leading the race for months, Kilgore saw the polls tightening considerably in recent weeks against Lt. Gov. Tim Kaine (D). In the hopes that one devastating TV ad could turn the race around, Kilgore’s campaign unveiled an ad titled, “Stanley,” featuring Stanley Rosenbluth talking about the tragic killing of his son and daughter-in-law. Viewers are told:

“Tim Kaine voluntarily represented the person who murdered my son. He stood with murderers in trying to get them off death row.

“No matter how heinous the crime, he doesn’t believe that death is a punishment. Tim Kaine says that Adolf Hitler doesn’t qualify for the death penalty. This was the… the worst mass murderer in modern times. Being as liberal as he is and the death penalty, he’s not representing everybody in the state.

“I don’t trust Tim Kaine when it comes to the death penalty. And I say that as a father whose had a son murdered. And the people of Virginia are entitled to know just what Tim Kaine is and what he stands for.”

On the demagoguery scale, this ad, paid for by the Kilgore campaign, scores pretty high. As a rule, when one side accuses the other of being soft on Hitler, you know a campaign has reached a certain depth. As the Washington Post put it in an editorial, the ad is “a low moment in Virginia politics, and in Mr. Kilgore’s otherwise solid career in public service.”

Brent I said this before many many times, .

Thats Bret with one T!!! :D

Where I have picked on any specific group of Illegal Aliens?

All your arguments appear to be of Martines, Valdez or Juan. I wasn't sure if you were overlooking the Eastern European, Middle Eastern or other illegals.


Ever hear of Godwins Law?
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/5565.html
Jerry Kilgore and Godwin’s law
Posted October 18th, 2005 at 12:53 pm
Share This | Spotlight | Permalink
As I understand it, “Godwin’s Law” (aka “Godwin’s rule of Nazi analogies”) basically says the first side that brings up Hitler in a political debate loses.

Oh crap, I guess your right and I'm wrong.

All your arguments appear to be of Martines, Valdez or Juan. I wasn't sure if you were overlooking the Eastern European, Middle Eastern or other illegals.

I don't think I have ever mentioned illegal aliens by name, I have posted some different stories and links to some illegal aliens.

I have the same dislike of all illegal aliens equally, I am an equal opportunity ***********************************.

Seeing as BGill is in Florida I imagine most of what he sees of illegal aliens are Latino. If he lives in say NYC he may be bitching about illegal Chinese or polish immigrants.

Seeing as BGill is in Florida I imagine most of what he sees of illegal aliens are Latino. If he lives in say NYC he may be bitching about illegal Chinese or polish immigrants.


Not Only Florida, but Plant City Florida.

Plant City has quite a bit of agriculture out here.

There are quite a few migrant workers out here, I drive by the fields everyday and I also see them in the local stores, the small animal auction, farmers markets etc. and I have never had a problem with any of them.

Used to be different. Immigrants, legal or not, did not get much of anything from our govt. Now they get quite a lot, it's costly.

Legal I have no problem with. Illegal, I do. I understand why many come here, sympathy is fine & great. But IMO we have a responsibility to control our borders & say who can & can't come here, by & large.

And Kaan is right, if the existing immigration laws were seriously enforced it would take care of a great deal of this problem. But neither party has the political will to do so.

Used to be different. Immigrants, legal or not, did not get much of anything from our govt. Now they get quite a lot, it's costly.

Legal I have no problem with. Illegal, I do. I understand why many come here, sympathy is fine & great. But IMO we have a responsibility to control our borders & say who can & can't come here, by & large.

And Kaan is right, if the existing immigration laws were seriously enforced it would take care of a great deal of this problem. But neither party has the political will to do so.

Now the coast is totaly different story, but the coast of social serv. it can not be sollely blame on the immigrants but I certenly want to talk about it and I dont want this thread to be derailed so I will open a new thread on this subject

Not Only Florida, but Plant City Florida.

Plant City has quite a bit of agriculture out here.

There are quite a few migrant workers out here, I drive by the fields everyday and I also see them in the local stores, the small animal auction, farmers markets etc. and I have never had a problem with any of them.

Really, you haven't been robbed, raped or assaulted. Unbelievable, with all those illegal migrant workers running around there, I thought for sure it would be chaos and pandemonium. Something like Escape from New York. Is it possible for those illegal’s to work out in the fields and NOT commit crimes? I don’t believe it!

Really, you haven't been robbed, raped or assaulted. Unbelievable, with all those illegal migrant workers running around there, I thought for sure it would be chaos and pandemonium. Something like Escape from New York. Is it possible for those illegal’s to work out in the fields and NOT commit crimes? I don’t believe it!

I said migrant workers, I never said they were illegal aliens, I assume they are legal migrant workers.

Just because they work in a field doesn't mean they are illegal aliens, I think you have shown your true colors.

We had one guy running around here that I really thought to be illegal. He was pretty flashy, too, drew a lot of attention to himself. Apparently the cops thought the same as I did & waited until they had a reason to pull him over.

Turned out he had papers. Perfectly legal visitor. It also turned out that he had 1/2 ounce of cocaine in his truck, so now he's in prison for a while.

Oops

We had one guy running around here that I really thought to be illegal. He was pretty flashy, too, drew a lot of attention to himself. Apparently the cops thought the same as I did & waited until they had a reason to pull him over.

Turned out he had papers. Perfectly legal visitor. It also turned out that he had 1/2 ounce of cocaine in his truck, so now he's in prison for a while.

Oops

I guess you don't want to be flashy when carrying a 1/2 oz of nose candy.

He may now be getting some illegal aliens cumming across his southern border now. :eek:

I said migrant workers, I never said they were illegal aliens, I assume they are legal migrant workers.

Just because they work in a field doesn't mean they are illegal aliens, I think you have shown your true colors.

Bill you can bet on this if they work in the fields they would be undocumented

Bill you can bet on this if they work in the fields they would be undocumented


I bet they are not.

It is too costly to get caught hiring them, if you have a field full of workers, it would not be hard for INS to come out and check them.

If it will make you feel better, I will call INS and have them come check the fields by my house.

I bet they are not.

It is too costly to get caught hiring them, if you have a field full of workers, it would not be hard for INS to come out and check them.

If it will make you feel better, I will call INS and have them come check the fields by my house.

Bill you would done that if iwant it or not. so I will not feel guilty!
but no INS will show up there you know why?
couse they allready knows who works on those fields.
it is not new it has being done for years and years

Bill you would done that if iwant it or not. so I will not feel guilty!
but no INS will show up there you know why?
couse they allready knows who works on those fields.
it is not new it has being done for years and years

I guess I have more faith in the migrant workers and the farmers that hire them than you do.

In some of the larger fields there are hundreds of migrant workers, the smaller fields sometimes it is 20-30, I am pretty certain if they were all illegal, that they wouldn't be out there en mass like that on a regular basis.

The United States does allow migrant workers to come here legally.

Recently in a field by my house there were some thugs that were robbing the migrant workers in the field and even shot one of them, luckily the dirtbags were chased down and caught, I am sure if the workers in the field were illegals, they wouldn't have stuck around and talked to the Sheriff's Deputy's.

I guess I have more faith in the migrant workers and the farmers that hire them than you do.

In some of the larger fields there are hundreds of migrant workers, the smaller fields sometimes it is 20-30, I am pretty certain if they were all illegal, that they wouldn't be out there en mass like that on a regular basis.

The United States does allow migrant workers to come here legally.

Recently in a field by my house there were some thugs that were robbing the migrant workers in the field and even shot one of them, luckily the dirtbags were chased down and caught, I am sure if the workers in the field were illegals, they wouldn't have stuck around and talked to the Sheriff's Deputy's.

Bret I am glad you think this way about those people around your house, so to benefits of those people I will shot up now:angel3:

Wait a minute, what happened to the racist Bret?

Wait a minute, what happened to the racist Bret?

Bret has never been a racist.

I know, but I had to yank the chain ;)

Recently in a field by my house there were some thugs that were robbing the migrant workers in the field and even shot one of them, luckily the dirtbags were chased down and caught, I am sure if the workers in the field were illegals, they wouldn't have stuck around and talked to the Sheriff's Deputy's.

You probably won't like it, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of law enforcement agencies around here make it a policy to leave immigration enforcement to the INS. They want the illegals to tell them about crime instead of running.

Edit- I think the rationale is that they would rather that the victims of violent crimes be willing to give them information on who dunnit. Catching those guys is a higher priority than deporting their victims.

Illegal aliens or not, they were bad guys doing bad stuff and a bad thing happened to them. We all reap what we sow. If you do bad things sooner or later it will catch up with you.

Bret has never been a racist.

Why doesn't he start threads titled "American citizen kills shoppers in Omaha?"

Why doesn't he start threads titled "American citizen kills shoppers in Omaha?"

I think everyone knows about that case, we discussed how maybe if someone had a gun that they may have been able to save some lives.

I brought up a case in Texas where 23 people were killed in a Luby's, it was by a US Citizen as well, unfortunately in that case a woman followed the law, left her gun in the car and her parents were executed.

That is one case where a gun law while not a direct cause was a contributing factor in the death of at least 2 people.

Bill,

Why don't you start threads about the good the military does, like for instance the Toys for Tots the Marine Corps does?

You probably won't like it, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of law enforcement agencies around here make it a policy to leave immigration enforcement to the INS. They want the illegals to tell them about crime instead of running.

Edit- I think the rationale is that they would rather that the victims of violent crimes be willing to give them information on who dunnit. Catching those guys is a higher priority than deporting their victims.

Bill,

That may be true but I doubt, every time a LEO makes contact with someone whether it be a suspect, victim, witness etc. they run their name and birth date through NICS, and if they find a warrant, they will arrest you.

There have been cases where crime victims and witnesses have been arrested from checks like that, sometimes even heroes that have rescued people from fires accidents or crimes.

Everytime I read arguments on this site, this is what it reminds me of:

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ04mfAY2BU

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnPsZg38WKw

Bill,

That may be true but I doubt, every time a LEO makes contact with someone whether it be a suspect, victim, witness etc. they run their name and birth date through NICS, and if they find a warrant, they will arrest you.

There have been cases where crime victims and witnesses have been arrested from checks like that, sometimes even heroes that have rescued people from fires accidents or crimes.

I agree. They should check them out and arrest those with warrants. But there are illegal aliens without outstanding warrants, and they should feel that they can give information to law enforcement without fear of being deported.

I agree. They should check them out and arrest those with warrants. But there are illegal aliens without outstanding warrants, and they should feel that they can give information to law enforcement without fear of being deported.

Why shouldn't they be deported?

They are in the country illegally.

If a cop pulls you over and you don't have a drivers license, you are arrested and you go to jail.

IMO illegal aliens pose a greater problem to the country than unlicensed drivers do.

We're going in circles Bret.

As I said before, the rationale is that the police would rather arrest the perpetrators of crime than the victims. If the victims won't talk to the police for fear of deportation, then the perps won't get caught. Which should be a higher priority- catching murderers or deporting illegals with no other offenses?

And of course maybe the murderer will be illegal too, so we get a bonus for you.

We're going in circles Bret.

As I said before, the rationale is that the police would rather arrest the perpetrators of crime than the victims. If the victims won't talk to the police for fear of deportation, then the perps won't get caught. Which should be a higher priority- catching murderers or deporting illegals with no other offenses?

And of course maybe the murderer will be illegal too, so we get a bonus for you.

Bill,

There was a case where a person rescued people from a burning house, the police talk to him run his name and DOB, find out he has a warrant and off to jail he goes.

There was a case where a woman reported she had been raped, the police check her name and DOB, she has an outstanding warrant, off to jail she goes.

I posted 2 cases in which 1 was a hero and 1 was a victim of a crime, both are here legally, yet both of them were arrested for their crimes.

Why should an illegal alien who by being in the United States is breaking the law, not be held to the same standards as the legal citizens of the United States are?

Something needs to be done about our border security, it was supposed to be done when Reagan gave amnesty to 8 million illegals, yet it wasn't done.

The majority (over 70%) of the Citizens of the United States does not want to give amnesty to illegals, and they want the borders strengthened, I am part of the 70%.

You guys have been going in circles since the start of this mess. Bret feels the way he does and you feel the way you do AND NITHER OF YOU WILL EVER CHANGE THE OTHERS OPINION.

Let wrap this up:

There are legal and illegal immigrants in the USA
Both commit crimes
Both are made up of good and bad people.
Both burden the USA financially
Both are human
Both have been involved in cases that resulted in them going to jail.
Both have been involved in cases where the should have been taken to jail based on the law and didn't
Bill and Bret will still never agree on each others views.

Bret,

I don't know if you really don't get it, or are just purposely playing dumb, but not a thing you said in that last post responded to my point. Let me walk through it very slowly.

Someone commits murder, rape, or another crime.

There are illegal aliens who witnessed the crime, and none of them have criminal records. Yes, they are criminals because they are here illegally, but they have committed no other crimes.

If those illegal aliens feel safe in talking to the police, we may arrest the murderer, but the illegal aliens will get a free ride for now and won't be deported.

If the illegal aliens don't feel safe in talking to the police, we won't arrest the murder, and the illegals won't be deported either because they didn't come forward and contact the police.

Either way, the illegals don't get caught, at least for now, and at least not as a result of the murder being committed. But in one case, we get the murderer.

Which is preferable?

Don't bother to tell me again what percentage of the population wants illegals deported or any of that other crap, because its irrelevant. And it doesn't matter whether I agree with you or not that all illegals should be rounded up and deported. What we are talking about is a law enforcement decision. Neither option results in more illegals being deported, but one option may keep murdererss off the street.

Bill,

I think you must not see my point, either that or you are ignoring it.

My point was in the 2 cases I showed you, the 2 people had warrants out on them, if I recall correctly they were for minor issues, not murder, robbery rape or anything like that.

one was a hero who saved peoples lives, the other was a rape victim, both of them were arrested when it was found out that they had minor warrants.

Why should an illegal alien get a free pass when people like the 2 cases I posted do not?

Maybe there should be an exception if an illegal alien is a witness to a murder, that they don't get deported, but the others do, is that more fair?

That way the murderer gets caught, yet the other illegals get deported.

OK, Gamble was right. I was naive again and thought I could make you stick to a simple point, but I was wrong.

OK, Gamble was right. I was naive again and thought I could make you stick to a simple point, but I was wrong.

Bill,

You are not Naive, just hard headed.

You ignored the part where I said maybe we should have an exception to let the illegal aliens go that are a witness to murders, I would even add rape and kidnapping to it as well.

Maybe I just have a bigger heart for illegals than you do.

Bill,

You are not Naive, just hard headed.

You ignored the part where I said maybe we should have an exception to let the illegal aliens go that are a witness to murders, I would even add rape and kidnapping to it as well.

Maybe I just have a bigger heart for illegals than you do.

if the general public benefits from some ones testimony, they are granted amunity from certain charges in courts everyday.

hell we even give the Gravono easy ride, which he admit it to kill seventeen people. and he testifies against John Gotti, he only serves couple of years. Then he goes out in Phonix and put up a new drug deals.
and we will send poor immigtrant back the other side of the desert, hes only crime is to crossed the dessert to provide his family? and we know he could help put away some real criminal?
I said let him stay. one less of 12 million would not make much of a difference!

Mostly, local cops & sheriff's departments don't get involved with legal residency issues.

A 911 Operator is not law enforcement.

MAYBE NOT AROUND YOUR AREA, BUT I WAS. I was also a deputy with the drug taskforce in the area.

I think there were a few things that the operator could have done differently. I trained 911 operations for 10 years and I am sure that their department is going through some specialized training.

95% of homicide warrants isssued in LA are for illegal aliens? Somehow I find that hard to believe, and I used to live there.

Bill Maxwell, local columnist, Viet Nam era Marine, Professor of Journalism, and an all around straight shooter who is African American and rather liberal, recently wrote a piece on the aftermath of the Sean Taylor shooting castigating the press and the African American community for not taking on more responsibility for the climate of violence in the black community. He cited DOJ stats that indicated that, while African Amercians made up 13% of the overall population, 49% of murder victims in America in 2005 were black and 93% of their killers were black. (Mr. Maxwell, like Bill Cosby, believes that many problems facing the community are self inflicted and that members of the community, especially parents, need to get more involved in imparting positive values and directions to their young. A discussion for a later day.)

Thus, if DOJ can be believed (and they are fairly good at number crunching) 45.6% of murders in America in 2005 were the result of black on black crime. Assuming that at least some of the other 51% of victims made up of whites, asians, latinos and others killed that year also fell to African Americans, it begs the imagination to claim that 95% of LA's killings were from illegal aliens. That they, like other groups lower on the socio-economic scale, may commit more than their fair share of murders, is probably true, but 95% is off the chart.

Note: I write this not as an attack on African Americans. The numbers are just what they are and tend to dispute the claim of most murders being committed by illegal aliens. They are cited for that purpose only. Why poor people kill and steal more than the financially secure is a question for the ages with many realitively obvious answers.

BTW, my house was burglarized Friday night. My 16 year-old son came home during it. Fortunately, the bad guy ran out the back stairs when he came in the front. Once John discovered the evidence of the crime, he ran out to see the perps driving off before he could get a license number. I wish I had been here to deport them to a warmer climate no matter where they were from originally. If that sounds savage or vengeful, I can live with that. Better that than the next 16 year old not being so lucky.