Sometimes, when getting back from a dive, I get a pang of guilt when I see a fish still twitching on the stringer, even though I brained it. Especially if its been a long shore dive and an easy fish, like a red grouper... I think I should take better care to dispatch every fish properly. Its just that sometimes they do the death shiver and then I think its done only later they wake up again. But then I see that some guys don't even try to dispatch the fish, I don't think that's right though.

Also what's the deal with keeping lobsters alive until forever. I don't like putting the cooler in the car and they're still croaking.

I don't think your post makes you a fish hugger. Compassionate perhaps, but not unreasonably extreme. I've thought about this more over the past year or so. When I first started shooting fish, I didn't necessarily feel this way.

I have a couple anecdotals regarding this that I'll refrain from posting it publically, but surely echo your sentiments.

Much like the bugs I prefer to keep my catch alive as long as possible to be fresh as possible. many times I will hear them kicking in the cooler in the back of the truck on the way home. Cleaned and sushied to plate within minutes, there is nothing better...

Folks this is a troll post. Other moderators have pointed to Seahunter's IP similarities with other members both active and banned.

I dont think your post makes you a tree huggr either...I do think you may want to look into a different sport, like ballet.

Look at Narc'd profile

http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/39750/2001588609259523953_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001588609259523953)

Kill fish, kill fish, not eating fish but killing fish.

Look at the user names; Dive for blood, fish killer pro. Wow, you're some tough rugged men!

Obviously my post is not directed to you, that's why its in the freediving section. Have you put away your tanks recently?

This is not a troll post. I felt something and I wanted to see if there are others who feel this way. I guess this is the reaction that can be expected in this forum. Yes, must not say anything that will make me look anything less than a tough guy. Guess what though, I don't give a shit oh you manly bubble blowers. What does bother me though is that your post will probably prevent someone who really wants to discuss this from posting.

Im confused, if you feel compassion regarding the death of your food. Then why do you spearfish? From you comments spearfishing is probably not the sport for you. You can pick up fillets at your local fish market just as you do beef from the butcher.

If it bothers you to shoot a fish and see it quiver, stop shooting fish. I Dont think you are any less of man. Or you could pick up a camera.

This is not a scuba versus free dive issue dont turn it into one. I will lock if it does.

This is a troll post with out a doubt, why post a question with such heavy "peta" connotations if not to stir the pot, esp in a community of people that are active hunter gather types. And why try to turn it in to a scuba free dive issue?

Chris

Underwater hunting for me is much more than you'll ever know. This is in response to you making a decision that it "probably isn't the sport for me".

I believe that there are ethics involved with what I do. You have ethics too, like not shooting a small fish. Or maybe you don't do it just becasue the regulations say you can't?

I didn't say it bothers me to shoot a fish and see it quiver. What I said is that after a dive I don't like it if I didn't dispatch a fish properly. The reason I didn't dispatch it properly is becasue when I did it the fish quivered and I erroneously concluded that it was dead.

Don't be confused, this is not a troll post. But you may just have to conceive the unbelievable notion that other people have different approaches and a different set of ethics when it comes to underwater hunting than you. This is what a forum is about no? Opening communication and sharing with people who may think the same.

You want to suppress what I have to say? Go ahead, you'll only show your true colors.

seahunter49,

I don't think fish feel pain the way we do, most likely what you are seeing is nerve action.

If it makes you uncomfortable seeing them quiver, just don't shoot them.

Plenty of fresh fish can be bought at local seafood houses if you don't want to cause a fish to "suffer".

I didn't say it bothers me to shoot a fish and see it quiver. What I said is that after a dive I don't like it if I didn't dispatch a fish properly. The reason I didn't dispatch it properly is becasue when I did it the fish quivered and I erroneously concluded that it was dead.If it makes you uncomfortable seeing them quiver, just don't shoot them.

Plenty of fresh fish can be bought at local seafood houses if you don't want to cause a fish to "suffer".The post by bgbill is in response to mine. Does anyone other than myself detect reading comprehension problems?

Im confused, if you feel compassion regarding the death of your food. Then why do you spearfish? From you comments spearfishing is probably not the sport for you. You can pick up fillets at your local fish market just as you do beef from the butcher.



I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your statement. Are you saying that if you are a spearfisherman, you can't be compasionate? I believe the American Indians were compasionate with their prey and they were perhaps the best hunters to roam this continent. I did not see this as a troll post or much less with your so-called "peta connotations". I think the guy brought up a point about dispatching their fish quick. I do this all the time, I personally would rather brain my fish and kill him quick than to see him shake its last breathes away in a fish box. If the fish is less fresh, so be it. It is not that important for me and I doubt it is that big of a difference.

Is it wrong to have a different view than the norm on here now? Different strokes for different folks.

Seahunter, tis the nature of people on here. Instead of answering your question, or not, they will belittle you and give you shit. People that can read and write only seem educated when posting on a forum that veils their true personalities.

In regards to your question it is a good thing to try to make your prey suffer as little as possible. It will make you a better person in the long run to care for other beings feelings. It will also get better with time. Eventually we just want to get em strung up and it is on back to the hunt!

Interesting that you bring up Indians Rolo. I have no first hand knowledge of their practices or beliefs, but I have read some accounts. One series of books is by Tom Brown. I highly recommend this author. It's hard to convey the connection that he advocates with nature. His knowledge is due to being raised with an Indian childhood friend who's grandfather, a shaman, took him under his wing. It is a true stroy and Tom Brown has a survival school somewhere in the states, maybe around New Jersey.

Anyways from what I understand thinking natives were spiritual when it came down to what the land gave to them. Understanding that they were part of a whole and that they had a responsibility to the animals that gave them life.

Thanks built7.

Underwater hunting for me is much more than you'll ever know. This is in response to you making a decision that it "probably isn't the sport for me".

Tell me about, explain to me why " your underwater hunting is so much more than i will ever know? What are you trying to insinuate?

I believe that there are ethics involved with what I do. You have ethics too, like not shooting a small fish. Or maybe you don't do it just because the regulations say you can't?.

Nope i have and believe there are ethics to be applied in all aspects of my life. After all i am the one who has face myself in a mirror. When my personal ethics are tread on by others, I do something about it. Creating SFP, Attending fishery meetings regularly, Passing up fish because of bad shots. Etc

I didn't say it bothers me to shoot a fish and see it quiver. What I said is that after a dive I don't like it if I didn't dispatch a fish properly. The reason I didn't dispatch it properly is becasue when I did it the fish quivered and I erroneously concluded that it was dead.

Often fish like other creature can be dead, brain dead, no blood pumping but yet still have movement.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/283/6/734-a
Maybe your are dispatching the fish just fine and they are experience movement after death.

Another option is take better care to dispatch you fish and to encourage those in you circle to do the same. If those people share your beliefs then they will follow your lead and share that belief others. Next thing you know
some stranger will give you your own advice.

Another thought regarding that matter, When fish are fighting for survival, chemicals are release in the body to aid in the fight. For Ex. Amber jack-- Jacks will fight with all of their might on Hnl or on spear. While they are fighting, they build up lactic acid in the meat. Make the meat taste fishier. As opposed to stoning a jack and they rollover dead, They taste better (IMHO) from the lack of lactic acid.

fwiw, I land lobsters whole because that is the law, however I tail at my earliest chance. If you are worried about them suffering from oxygen depletion then keep them in a live well or 5 gal bucket that can have water added to it regularly.

Don't be confused, this is not a troll post. But you may just have to conceive the unbelievable notion that other people have different approaches and a different set of ethics when it comes to underwater hunting than you. This is what a forum is about no? Opening communication and sharing with people who may think the same.

I still think you are trolling, however I have tried to reply with earnest. You keep trying to pin me in to a corner with "my ethics" so please explain to me what you think my ethics are or include?

I am open to all pov regarding the protection, promotion, and positive growth of the sport of spear fishing.

You want to suppress what I have to say? Go ahead, you'll only show your true colors.

I said if you twisted this into free diver vs. scuba I would close the thread.

My question is who is that person posting the question???

Is it
seahunter49
pantoja

or ????????

There have been studies done about fish that concluded they don't have pain receptors the way we do, so although they may "feel pain" and react to it, they don't suffer from pain in a sense that we do.

Braining a fish will kill it if his brain is scrambled, yet they will still move and twitch, yet they do not suffer from this.

Again if seeing a fish twitch or quiver bothers you, don't shoot it.

Next time cut yourself so you can share the pain with the fish.

This thread is so EMO.

I have no way of knowing whether its a troll post or not.

I also can't tell for sure how much fish feel "pain" as we understand it.

But I still relate to his message. If there is a chance that fish suffer, I don't want to see them suffer needlessly because I didn't dispatch them promptly. I don't think that means I should find another sport- it just indicates how I feel about my sport.

I'd also prefer that the cattle that are the source of my steak be killed as humanely as possible rather than being shot in the gut and left to bleed do death, but that doesn't mean I'm giving up steak. It just means I want cattle killed as humanely as possible.

Often fish like other creature can be dead, brain dead, no blood pumping but yet still have movement.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/283/6/734-a
Maybe your are dispatching the fish just fine and they are experience movement after death.

Another option is take better care to dispatch you fish and to encourage those in you circle to do the same. If those people share your beliefs then they will follow your lead and share that belief others. Next thing you know
some stranger will give you your own advice.This is pertinent and thank you. In the particular case that spurred me to post the fish was still alive 2 hours after I supposedly dispatched it. Due to the nature of the movement of the fish I could see that it was not nervous reflex. I then dispatched it for the second time which then really put it away.

I'm familiar with the concept of an animal being dead yet still kicking. In another place and time I decided to not kill any more sea turtles. During butchering their flippers move and kick just as if they were alive. It is a disturbing sight.

I'm familiar with the concept of an animal being dead yet still kicking. In another place and time I decided to not kill any more sea turtles. During butchering their flippers move and kick just as if they were alive. It is a disturbing sight.

That and the fact it is illegal to knowingly kill sea turtles in US waters. I can't understand why you would have to ask whether fish feel pain or not. If they were not dying quickly enough with the methods you were using why didn't you simply come up with another way to dispatch them, rather than having some sort of ethical dilemma about the whole thing.

I'd also prefer that the cattle that are the source of my steak be killed as humanely as possible rather than being shot in the gut and left to bleed do death, but that doesn't mean I'm giving up steak. It just means I want cattle killed as humanely as possible.

Bill,

When a cow is killed to be butchered it is not shot in the gut and left in a field to bleed to death.

The way my neighbor did it when Chuck was slaughtered was they called Chuck to the gate, and shot him in the head with a .22 and then field dressed him and took him away in a refrigerated truck to age before he was butchered.

Chuck immediately fell over and started twitching after being shot in the head, but he was dead and I doubt he suffered at all.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your statement. Are you saying that if you are a spearfisherman, you can't be compasionate? I believe the American Indians were compasionate with their prey and they were perhaps the best hunters to roam this continent. I did not see this as a troll post or much less with your so-called "peta connotations". I think the guy brought up a point about dispatching their fish quick. I do this all the time, I personally would rather brain my fish and kill him quick than to see him shake its last breathes away in a fish box. If the fish is less fresh, so be it. It is not that important for me and I doubt it is that big of a difference.

Is it wrong to have a different view than the norm on here now? Different strokes for different folks.

I am compassionate toward my kill. I actively practice braining fish. I don't believe in taking bad shots etc. I don't believe suffering unnecessarily. It is very rare for me to experience fish flopping around in a cooler suffering. maybe 1 out of 15 or 20 fish. I also don't believe wasting fish.

When I read the original post, it reads to me, when SP49 shoots fish and it is not killed he feels guilt. IMO if you feel guilt/ uncomfortable about your actions, you shouldn't continue those actions.

Not everyone is the same. I never said his feelings were wrong.
I do feel that his comments are peta esq http://www.fishinghurts.com/feat-newcomic.asp

Chris

Bill,

When a cow is killed to be butchered it is not shot in the gut and left in a field to bleed to death.



I realize that Bret. I was just saying that I'm glad, and then trying to draw a parallel to fish, even if it may be a weak one.

That and the fact it is illegal to knowingly kill sea turtles in US waters. I can't understand why you would have to ask whether fish feel pain or not. If they were not dying quickly enough with the methods you were using why didn't you simply come up with another way to dispatch them, rather than having some sort of ethical dilemma about the whole thing.More reading comprehesion problems.. Read again and see "In another place and time".

What have you contributed to my discussion? If you dive enough then you know that the situation I described happens even with the best intentions. Never mind the people who don't even make an effort to dispatch their fish. I wanted to hear what people like me have to say.

seahunter49,

There have been studies done that say fish don't feel pain the way we do, I know PETA would dispute it, but since they don't feel pain the way we do, what does it matter if they twitch or quiver?

This is pertinent and thank you. In the particular case that spurred me to post the fish was still alive 2 hours after I supposedly dispatched it. Due to the nature of the movement of the fish I could see that it was not nervous reflex. I then dispatched it for the second time which then really put it away.

I'm familiar with the concept of an animal being dead yet still kicking. In another place and time I decided to not kill any more sea turtles. During butchering their flippers move and kick just as if they were alive. It is a disturbing sight.

I would find this disturbing as well.

Many times with bigger fish that I am concerned with dispatching, I will brain (when i brain a fish i insert the knife twist and wiggle and sometimes repeat) , remove gills, and slice either side of the fish where the tail meets the body to aid in bleeding. These methods have worked for me. Hope fully they help or work for you.

Chris

Thanks Chris.seahunter49,

There have been studies done that say fish don't feel pain the way we do, I know PETA would dispute it, but since they don't feel pain the way we do, what does it matter if they twitch or quiver?bgbill, do you think deer feel pain like we do? If so do you believe in dispatching them humanely? How about a smaller animal then, a goat or a sheep or a coyote? If so then why not a marine species, like a porpoise or a turtle? And if so for the sake of consistency why not fish? You know, just in case you're wrong.

bgbill, do you think deer feel pain like we do?

I don't know as I have not looked into it.

Are you having a hard time properly dispatching a Deer too?

Animals do not have the higher thought process that humans have so they may feel pain, but it is not in the same sense that we feel or experience pain.

Many times people (especially the PETA types) will try and equate the pain an animal may feel to the pain we feel.

I wanted to hear what people like me have to say.

Other people like you would just brain 'em again, forget about it, and not give it another thought. But it seems you feel the need to explore your mental confusion with everyone else...and you already know what they think. Why is that? Are you on a mission to save all the suffering fish and decided to preach your ethics here? How are you going to save the suffering fish from other predators?

I had a gator try to crawl back into the water one time when he had no head. I guess he was hurting and was trying to get away from me. Excuse me while I wipe away my crocodile tears.

Everything with a central nervous system feels pain. Fish feel pain to some degree and they definitely sense fear. If it is such a moral dilemma for you why do you spearfish. I have always been of the opinion that if you aren't willing to kill something you should not be hunting it. Nobody here seems to be suggesting anyone kills something to purposely make it suffer but not every shot will be perfectly placed and that is just the way the sport is.

bgbill, do you think deer feel pain like we do? If so do you believe in dispatching them humanely? How about a smaller animal then, a goat or a sheep or a coyote?

I think there are a lot of people who have no problem killing fish but balk at the idea of killing mammals becuase they seem so much more like us in many ways.

I feel fine as long as I've made an effort to prevent needless suffering of anything I kill. But, I don't have any baggage related to this subject so maybe I just don't worry about it too much if a fish gives a final thump inside the box.

Thanks Chris.bgbill, do you think deer feel pain like we do? If so do you believe in dispatching them humanely? How about a smaller animal then, a goat or a sheep or a coyote? If so then why not a marine species, like a porpoise or a turtle? And if so for the sake of consistency why not fish?


Goats supposedly go into a trance of euphoria when they are cornered and think they are about to be eaten.

I know when I corner my goats they lay down and don't try to get away.

You are trying to make all animals equate pain like people do, animals do not have the higher though process that humans have.

Porpoise do have a higher thought process than most other animals, so you can't lump all the animals into the same category.

Do you think a tree suffers pain when it is cut down?

bgbill, do you think deer feel pain like we do?

All vertrbrates feel pain to some degree or another,some in similar ways to us and others very differently.Fear of pain=survival instinct,at least to some degree or another.
With that being said,a Canadian editorialist recently wrote in a column in defense of Canada's reinstating the fur seal hunts that in nature;death by club or bullet is probably one of the most humane in nature.Sure death by stone shot can be added to the last.

Well Marcus, at the least some newbs who may not be aware that they should dispatch fish may read this thread and learn something. If they pay attention to you however they may come away with the idea that watching fish quivering on the boat deck is part of the fun.I don't know as I have not looked into it.

Are you having a hard time properly dispatching a Deer too?

Animals do not have the higher thought process that humans have so they may feel pain, but it is not in the same sense that we feel or experience pain.

Many times people (especially the PETA types) will try and equate the pain an animal may feel to the pain we feel.bgbill, I enjoy some of your arguments and find your POV interesting. But I'm amazed your fingers handled typing the above nonsense. Even just for the sake of being argumentative.

Bret-I am not so sure you are correct on that one. I believe that deer and other large mammals have an equally sensitive nervous system and are just as capable to feeling pain as we are. That said if you are hunting deer you try to get as clean a shot as possible to dispatch the animal with as little discomfort and pain as possible. Still, deerhunting, like spearfishing, isnt 100% certain with every shot. The idea is to so as well as possible but if anyone is worried about the deers feelings then they best not go hunting.

Seahunter, tis the nature of people on here. Instead of answering your question, or not, they will belittle you and give you shit. People that can read and write only seem educated when posting on a forum that veils their true personalities.



Somewhat presumptious for a guy who's 'known' us for all of a month....

Somewhat presumptious for a guy who's 'known' us for all of a month....Well, maybe it didn't need to be said.. I believe he thought I was being cornered and wanted to give me some support. But you have to admit he's pretty observant.

First of all, I'd like to say that this is a very interesting yhread. I say so because I don't know who seahunter 49 is and i don't care. i say this in regard to the one who was trying to pull peoples interest out of this thread by saying he or she was someone who had already been banned.I think we've seen quite a bit of banning already from the other forum, just my 2 cents.
now as long as fish is I'm very compassionate, i let them poor fishies live as long as possible.........if someone hit me with a spear and put me on a stringer I'd pray for some extra minutes of life regardless of pain.I guess being kind to them and giving those extra minutes or more make kind of compassionate but not a tree hugger.:D

Bret-I am not so sure you are correct on that one. I believe that deer and other large mammals have an equally sensitive nervous system and are just as capable to feeling pain as we are. That said if you are hunting deer you try to get as clean a shot as possible to dispatch the animal with as little discomfort and pain as possible. Still, deerhunting, like spearfishing, isnt 100% certain with every shot. The idea is to so as well as possible but if anyone is worried about the deers feelings then they best not go hunting.

I don't know if deer feel pain the way we do, I do know how a goat acts when cornered or captured when it knows it can't escape.

The goat farmer I bought my 1st goats from said they go into a trance when they are about to be eaten, like they know they are fulfilling their purpose and are happy, I have no idea if what he said is true or not.

When shooting any animal, you should make sure to take as clean a shot as possible, whether or not they experience pain the way we do, that is one reason why I get disgusted when I see "Hunters" at the range sighting in and they can't shoot worth a shit off of a bench, yet they are more than willing to go into the field and shoot at deer.

I don't know if deer feel pain the way we do, I do know how a goat acts when cornered or captured when it knows it can't escape.

The goat farmer I bought my 1st goats from said they go into a trance when they are about to be eaten, like they know they are fulfilling their purpose and are happy, I have no idea if what he said is true or not.

When shooting any animal, you should make sure to take as clean a shot as possible, whether or not they experience pain the way we do, that is one reason why I get disgusted when I see "Hunters" at the range sighting in and they can't shoot worth a shit off of a bench, yet they are more than willing to go into the field and shoot at deer.

I couldn't agree more.

I would reckon that a goat in a trance is a lot easier for marcus to sneak up on. Do you think they are happy to be fulfilling their purpose with him.

I couldn't agree more.

I would reckon that a goat in a trance is a lot easier for marcus to sneak up on. Do you think they are happy to be fulfilling their purpose with him.

Billy will squirm a bit when Marcus first mounts him, but he always seems to be happy when Marcus comes back to see him again. ;)

Marcus said he was just helping Billy get through the fence, I don't know why he put Billy's legs in his boots though. :confused:

If they pay attention to you however they may come away with the idea that watching fish quivering on the boat deck is part of the fun.

That was insulting.

Why don't you just stop mentally masturbating your feelings and just dispatch the fish to your liking? We don't need to know what you 'feel'. I get enough of that from my wife.

And you don't have an agenda posting on this board.:confused:

The goat farmer I bought my 1st goats from said they go into a trance when they are about to be eaten, like they know they are fulfilling their purpose and are happy, I have no idea if what he said is true or not.This reminds me of an episode in The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy. Maybe some of you have seen it. I could never decide if it is funny or disturbing. Here's a synopsis.In the book, the protagonist encounters a cow-like lifeform which has been genetically modified to remove the genes regarding self-preservation, so that it actually WANTS to be eaten. The argument was that a sense of sympathy to animals prevented conventional agriculture, but by making the livestock a willing participant in it's own slaughter, the guilt on behalf of the diners is assuaged. The protagonist, on the other hand, is greatly disturbed by this, and refuses to eat the meat.Why don't you just stop mentally masturbating your feelings and just dispatch the fish to your liking? We don't need to know what you 'feel'. I get enough of that from my wife.That has an easy solution Marcus. Don't click on the thread.And you don't have an agenda posting on this board.:confused:Absolutely not. I kill what I eat without remorse (anything else would be hypocritical) until something happens that goes against my code of ethics. I deal with my own inner conflict to the best of my ability and learn from my experience so it will not happen again.

"I deal with my own inner conflict to the best of my ability"

Not very good at are you? Otherwise you wouldn't be discussing your issues with everyone else.
Maybe you're not mentally built for spearfishing. Maybe you should have other people do it for you. A lot of people are like that. They want to eat the food but won't have anything to do with killing it. I know my wife is like that.

Somewhat presumptious for a guy who's 'known' us for all of a month....

Read some people on here. One only has to look at the threads, I remember when I asked a legit question and the responses I got. Instead of tackling the subject, the attacks became personal. Same thing on this thread. Guy asks a legit question and people on here feel the need to give him shit.

There is a reason why this forum is slow. Not a whole lot of posts and members as the other forum. People want to feel welcomed and want to be able to discuss topics without being attacked and belittled.

Read some people on here. One only has to look at the threads, I remember when I asked a legit question and the responses I got. Instead of tackling the subject, the attacks became personal. Same thing on this thread. Guy asks a legit question and people on here feel the need to give him shit.

There is a reason why this forum is slow. Not a whole lot of posts and members as the other forum. People want to feel welcomed and want to be able to discuss topics without being attacked and belittled.

It's a troll post plain and simple. Go over to PETA's website and make a "Confessions of a Fish Killer" post and see what happens.

Bulit7, you heap alot of that shit on yourself. That's what happens when you start shoveling it. If you want to play in it, you're going to get some on you.

Read some people on here. One only has to look at the threads, I remember when I asked a legit question and the responses I got. Instead of tackling the subject, the attacks became personal. Same thing on this thread. Guy asks a legit question and people on here feel the need to give him shit.

There is a reason why this forum is slow. Not a whole lot of posts and members as the other forum. People want to feel welcomed and want to be able to discuss topics without being attacked and belittled.

It's been pointed out to ya before,Built7;sometimes it's how you come across.
That's all...Course,discussion at hand really has nothing to do with people skills.So...

"I deal with my own inner conflict to the best of my ability"

Not very good at are you? Otherwise you wouldn't be discussing your issues with everyone else.
Maybe you're not mentally built for spearfishing. Maybe you should have other people do it for you. A lot of people are like that. They want to eat the food but won't have anything to do with killing it. I know my wife is like that.Marcus, this is not your usual lighthearted self. Take a puff or a pill, whatever you're usually on. Yeah, I'm not as tough mentally as you, I should quit spearfishing. I'll tell you a little secret, if spearfishing gets to the point in this country where it is illegal, I will without hesitation move to another country where I can do it freely. Would you do that?

There is a reason why this forum is slow. Not a whole lot of posts and members as the other forum. People want to feel welcomed and want to be able to discuss topics without being attacked and belittled.

I have never felt belittled or attacked on this forum. Some people may be less tactful and will easily find ways to get harrassed here and anywhere else they may travel. I wonder if the same people who cry foul on the internet forums of the world find they have just as little success in the real world.

That said, I will admit that discussions of snorkel keeper preferences, technical spearfishing, fish death guilt, and other assorted non-sense will generally find the response to fall somewhere between giggle and outright ridicule:D

You guys are all being taking the bait.

Ill pass.

Read some people on here. One only has to look at the threads, I remember when I asked a legit question and the responses I got. Instead of tackling the subject, the attacks became personal. Same thing on this thread. Guy asks a legit question and people on here feel the need to give him shit.

There is a reason why this forum is slow. Not a whole lot of posts and members as the other forum. People want to feel welcomed and want to be able to discuss topics without being attacked and belittled.

I agree if you consider this a random new user,, but it's not. These post are being made by a user that was banned for this same type of trolling. I understand you would have knowledge of the past issues as you weren't a member at the time.

This post and posts from the past by this user where a question of PERSONAL responsibility and morals regarding our sport. Most users will agree for the most part that everyone need to try to stone every fish and if they don't, dispatch it as they feel fit. Arguing if fish have feelings or to what degree they feel pain is pointless. If you think they do and you feel its cool to shoot and brain if needed great. If you toss them in the cooler,, great. Hell if you think you should cover your self with their slime,,, what ever. Pulling the trigger proves that your wanting to kill the fish. If it bothers you after the fact,,, don't shoot fish.

To all

I have attached an image that shows that two users are originating from the same ip address. sucks, hope you have enjoyed yourself and chaos brought forth.

Chris