View Full Version : Data Discussion


Apex
01-29-2008, 01:06 PM
"One month closed season is enough"

why...grouper spawn over a period of months...3-5 is not uncommon.

the single worst thing you can do to a population is remove the fish during spawning season.

"One month closed season is enough"

why...grouper spawn over a period of months...3-5 is not uncommon.

the single worst thing you can do to a population is remove the fish during spawning season.

HOWEVER even when doing so the Gag biomass is still higher than ever. Not every grouper spawns for 5 months out of the year dude.:bsflag:

I always wondered what the difference was between a calculator and a scientic calculator was, now I know :rofl:

Keez,

Are you taking grants from the dark side now?
Are you reading any of the data or just blindly making assertions in their favor because they're biologists like you so they must be right. They have our best interests at heart. :rolleyes:

HOWEVER even when doing so the Gag biomass is still higher than ever. Not every grouper spawns for 5 months out of the year dude.:bsflag:

I always wondered what the difference was between a calculator and a scientic calculator was, now I know :rofl:

:lol:

"HOWEVER even when doing so the Gag biomass is still higher than ever. Not every grouper spawns for 5 months out of the year dude"

ok....where's your proof??

name a grouper that only spawns for one month....with scientific proof...please!

fish spawn over a period of time, known fact. not every single grouper in the ocean spawns at 8pm on march 14th.

there is probably a peak month, but why not protect those fish that are a bit early and a bit late? alot of times a peak month in one area is the early month in another.


as for taking "grants from the dark side"....which side is that? the scientific community that's trying to get the specific accurate information you guys seem to want?
i'm a fish biologist...i'm working to improve the sub-standard science that all you bitch about.


"They have our best interests at heart"

YOUR interest? you mean your ability to fill your freezer? no i think they have the fish's interests at heart, so the fishiery doesn't completly collapse like what happened in the north atlantic.

Keez are you saying you know for a fact that gag grouper are on the brink of collapse, are you sure they are undergoing overfishing, do you dive in the gulf....have you ever....or recently? How about this....have you even read the gulf gag assessment? If you have do you stand behind the data contained therein? Are you not aware that there are fatal flaws in the data so much so that it suggests every single juvenile fish in the population is caught multiple times before it reaches maturity. Add to this the dead discard assumption and you would have to assume that the entire gag fishery should collapse beyond repair almost every year. Do you still think this is good science?

"But OH BOY was one of the Council members pushing to MPA's.
We ask again, on the record, WHAT QUANTIFIABLE EFFECTS WILL MPA's have on the fishery?????"

here's a concept...

LET'S TRY IT AND FIND OUT!!!

how do you KNOW...absolutely...that they won't??

they've been shown to work in other places of the world. they're not the end-all-be-all solution. but having a place where a fish population can thrive and broadcast its eggs and juveniles from is hardly a bad thing.
well...except that it keeps you from filling your freezer.

MPAs are a hypothesis. the scientific method dictates that you run an experiment to disprove the hypothesis (you can't technically prove a hypothesis right). only way to run the experiment is to institute the MPAs, collect datat, analyze it, and hopefully when you're children are politically supercharged spearfisherman...they'll have the information they need to keep or disolve the MPA.


or is your reason for not wanting the MPAs more that it infringes on your hobby? which, using marcus' phrase, doesn't have YOUR "best interests at heart".
;)

Keez, Apex, Marcus, and others:

In order to keep this thread intact and on subject I'm going to merge your posts into a new thread so you guys can discuss the data, biomass, fishery, etc.

NSEARCH
01-29-2008, 01:10 PM
Well I f'd that all up :rofl:

Sorry guys.....I'm not trying to derail your conversation as I think it's a good one....just trying to keep the threads on topic.

fiz
01-29-2008, 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by keezdiver
"ok where is your proof"




My microscope is my mask and my slide is the real deal. Come on a 3 day trip 100miles away from the granola stands and I'll show you!

The steamboat Lumps and Madison Swanson are already protecting what you speak of. They can spawn 365 days a year there if they like.

richt
01-29-2008, 01:43 PM
Keez,
Please dont think that your input is not greatly appreciated and/or understood.
I'm not sure how familiar you are with the Gulf of Mexico and/or the political process?
I know you are very familiar with the biology, but that is just one step of the equation, correct?

Regarding what youve posted?
We already have MPA's in the gulf that protect essential fish habitat and spawning aggregations.
And the Middlegrounds is already classified a HAPC and protected form longliners. Its distance from shore also affords it some protection.
I'm sure youve read as much as I (probably more so) regarding the quantifiable effects of MPA's and there is much debate regarding their effectiveness in certain areas.

Regarding your assertion that the fish "need to be left alone to spawn"?
I'm sure your familiar with the word "sustainability" and how it relates to fish populations?
For those not familiar with sustainabilty, it basically means we only have to have a certain amount of fish survive to spawn, and grow to maturity so that the population remains healthy.
BTW...Most spawning aggregations (of gag grouper) are protected from recreational pressure due to their distance from shore in the GOM.

Teh Wicked
01-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Honestly im not that mad about the season closure. The bag limit is really chaping my ass...

with a closed season that just means the population is going to get insane really quick and much large fish to be harvested. The bag limit is what really hurts my feelings.

chawk
01-29-2008, 08:31 PM
What Rich T just wrote is what i've been sitting here wondering about. Where do grouper spawn? Those fish aren't getting caught by rec's so wtf. The biologist dives in the gulf twice and notices all the barely legal fish. That gives him a rough estimate! I'm just pissed