Hypoxia of ascent or SHALLOW WATER BLACKOUT!

MUST READ newbies and Old Pro's alike.........
Scuba Diving Magazine May 08 issue Pg. 41 THIS ISSUE

Brothers and Sisters this is the most informative easily read article on this subject I've read, PLEASE grab a copy and read..It may save your life. It may also be on their website www.scubadiving.com

After the read....I'm out ...not that Ive ever done it mind you, but NO interest in it anymore..scarey stuff.
I respect the hell out of all you freeswimmers:D but.... I've seen you guys all swimmy eyed.... just wonder how close you were....:circle:

The better you become the stronger the likelihood......according to article

The better you become the stronger the likelihood......according to article

Terry Maas says that in his book too. Its not beginners who die this way- its relatively experienced and aggressive divers.

We've lost several guys out here over the last few years, and in every case, people say what a great diver the guy was, and how he always outdid everyone else.

I've also heard of some of our most talented divers out here surviving swb, some of them more than once, when a buddy was there to save them. In fact, one of them has an article in the current Hawaii Skin Diver Magazine describing he and his friend shooting big grouper in Mexico, and telling how they were laying on the bottom at 100 feet for three minute breath holds to draw the grouper in. In this case he does say how he and his buddy are using a one-gun for two-divers system and watching each other close, but I get worried that some people will read this and just focus on trying to duplicate the three minute breath holds without realizing how truly gifted this guy and his buddy are and how he has blacked out himself.

It's interesting..I woke up at 3 am thinking about this...in scuba we know what our approx limits are by tables guages, computers etc. But freediving is instinctual thus more dangerous and I would believe huge margins for error. You have no scientific data or instruments to rely on...
I cant tell you the number of times freedivers on my boat have said "whew! a little light headed" when they came up. They say (article) the first 30-45 seconds after surfacing are critical and observation then is most important.
It very interesting how quickly being oxygen rich becomes oxygen deprivation.

It's interesting..I woke up at 3 am thinking about this...in scuba we know what our approx limits are by tables guages, computers etc. But freediving is instinctual thus more dangerous and I would believe huge margins for error. You have no scientific data or instruments to rely on...



That's why that freediving safety vest being developed by Terry Maas has such great promise. I hope its ready before too long, and that price won't deter too many divers from using it.

What about Scott Zeagles set up?

Here's another reference from the article..I havent been there so dont know anyhting about it other than they reference Freediving

archive.rubicon-foundation.org
search "breath-hold"

What about Scott Zeagles set up?



I don't recall the details, but my impression is that his set up is not as sophisticated and ambitious at Terry's. His will inflate at preset depths or times, inflate if you try to submerge too soon after reaching the surface, etc.

http://www.oceanicss.com/

I think that freediving can be done safely, but if you push the limmits in this sport you stand the chance of drownding. I've gotten close to a SWB and it was because I was pushing to deep and to long. I wasn't realy enjoying the underwater world anymore, I was just trying to go further and further. I would notice that I was all fuzzy in the head on the drive home. after that I backed off, now I don't let my dive time exceed 1.5 and I like to keep my depth no more that 70ft. I also don't practice holding my breath, I had gotten my self to a point that I would almost forget to breath with a personal best of 5.5minuts; now maby 1-2 minuts.

Enzo

Just makes me appreciate dive buddies even more, especially when doing the deep stuff. Make sure you dive with somebody that knows there shit.

I don't recall the details, but my impression is that his set up is not as sophisticated and ambitious at Terry's. His will inflate at preset depths or times, inflate if you try to submerge too soon after reaching the surface, etc.

http://www.oceanicss.com/

I wonder if that is a good thing? Maybe people might think they can push themselves now thinking that their vest will save them with no malfunctions.

I wonder if that is a good thing? Maybe people might think they can push themselves now thinking that their vest will save them with no malfunctions.

I suppose that's possible. In my case, I'm pretty cowardly, and I've had my cowardice reinforced by having to bring home my buddy's ashes from Mexico as carry-on luggage, so I really don't think it will make me push myself.

But a thing like that is intangible, so its really hard to predict.

If you read the reports on promiscuity you'd shy away from Sexual encounters all together. But how many of you would give up sexual intercourse due to risk? I'm not going to give up freediving because its risky, I've had the opportunity to witness a SWB on several occasions and all were fortunate to have good dive buddies. It think the biggest risk is having a bad buddy and dying not SWB itself.

I've come up far too often to find my buddy on a dive. What's the point of a buddy if they don't watch you the entire dive? I don't take a buddy out with me to help me swim back or fight of the tax collector, they're out there to watch me as I watch them. I'm almost a damn nuisance I watch so closely they often swim into me on their way back to get air.

We need to educate and promote BUDDIES. Freediving is a team sport in essence because we need to rely on each other. I find Tank diving to be far more dangerous as you're relying on something which you cannot fully control to provide you with air. If you run out of air or your tank leaks at depth you're far less likely to make it to the surface unharmed than say a freediver who takes it easy and doesn't try and break 3:30 minutes on each dive.

My point is it's not for me. I would much rather base my judgements on devices that aid in safety than dive by intuition is all. I have many friends that are freeswimmers :D and frankly am jealous of their stealth advantage.
I only made this post as I dont want to see any of my brothers or sisters become a statistic. Diving period is dangerous.if it werent we probably would like it nearly as much....to each his or her own..JUST BE CAREFUL

Being on the west coast of Florida (Tampa Bay) we don't always have top to bottom visibility and I do realize that everyone else doesn't either. I've always wondered what good a buddy is when he can't even see you on the bottom? And if they can't see you on the bottom then how are they going to know where you're going to come up in order to be useful if you do blackout within that 30 seconds or so upon surfacing? Just curious how bad vis is dealt from a safety standpoint. The only freediving we've done is around Tampa Bay all within 30 feet and we never buddy up. He's my buddy....but he ain't watching me and I'm not watching him. Well in a sense we do watch each other....only to make sure we've got enough distance between us so that we won't make the mistake of shooting each other in the pea soup 2 to 3 foot vis :D

The numerous times I've come close have always been at the surface, even after I've taken a couple breaths. A buddy doesn't guarantee anything but hopefully will see the eyes bugging out of your head when you might be in trouble after too long of a drop. I can always tell when I need to watch somebody and I'll stay with them for a good 30 secs till I know they're ok. Mind you this is usually for a "planned on deep/long dive", which we usually discuss before doing.

Being on the west coast of Florida (Tampa Bay) we don't always have top to bottom visibility and I do realize that everyone else doesn't either. I've always wondered what good a buddy is when he can't even see you on the bottom? And if they can't see you on the bottom then how are they going to know where you're going to come up in order to be useful if you do blackout within that 30 seconds or so upon surfacing? Just curious how bad vis is dealt from a safety standpoint. The only freediving we've done is around Tampa Bay all within 30 feet and we never buddy up. He's my buddy....but he ain't watching me and I'm not watching him. Well in a sense we do watch each other....only to make sure we've got enough distance between us so that we won't make the mistake of shooting each other in the pea soup 2 to 3 foot vis :D


I agree with all that. Often, I've tried to watch a guy while he dove down to cut a fish out of kelp in poor vis. After a while, I begin to think he is overdue, and then I look over and see him on the surface. If he had not come up, I probably would have had a hell of a time finding him.

I was on the other side of that today. A relative beginner on my boat shot a 60 pound white sea bass that wrapped up bad in thick kelp. I went over to help and hold his gun while he dove, but he couldn't find it. I had him hold my gun and I had a go at it, and I found it pretty quick, but it was wrapped up tight in a thick column of kelp and the vis was shitty down there. I made several dives and finally got it up with the help of my Carter float, but every time I came up, I noticed that he wasn't looking toward me. He was looking down his line wondering when I'd come back.

There were two reasons why he probably couldn't have helped me if I had been in trouble. He couldn't see me, and he isn't that experienced anyway. A buddy has to be at least as good a diver as you are to be helpful in a lot of scenarios.

If you read the reports on promiscuity you'd shy away from Sexual encounters all together. But how many of you would give up sexual intercourse due to risk? I'm not going to give up freediving because its risky, I've had the opportunity to witness a SWB on several occasions and all were fortunate to have good dive buddies. It think the biggest risk is having a bad buddy and dying not SWB itself.

I've come up far too often to find my buddy on a dive. What's the point of a buddy if they don't watch you the entire dive? I don't take a buddy out with me to help me swim back or fight of the tax collector, they're out there to watch me as I watch them. I'm almost a damn nuisance I watch so closely they often swim into me on their way back to get air.

We need to educate and promote BUDDIES. Freediving is a team sport in essence because we need to rely on each other. I find Tank diving to be far more dangerous as you're relying on something which you cannot fully control to provide you with air. If you run out of air or your tank leaks at depth you're far less likely to make it to the surface unharmed than say a freediver who takes it easy and doesn't try and break 3:30 minutes on each dive.

:toast: What he said...

Hypoxia of ascent or SHALLOW WATER BLACKOUT!

MUST READ newbies and Old Pro's alike.........
Scuba Diving Magazine May 08 issue Pg. 41 THIS ISSUE

Brothers and Sisters this is the most informative easily read article on this subject I've read, PLEASE grab a copy and read..It may save your life. It may also be on their website www.scubadiving.com

After the read....I'm out ...not that Ive ever done it mind you, but NO interest in it anymore..scarey stuff.
I respect the hell out of all you freeswimmers:D but.... I've seen you guys all swimmy eyed.... just wonder how close you were....:circle:

The better you become the stronger the likelihood......according to article
Great article - it helps me understand that safety comes first in freediving, and how to be more safe. I've not seen freedivers all swimmyeyed as you say...To say scuba is safer than freediving is definitely up for debate...

When ya have no viz... especially... a float would be the best device to locate an overdue diver I would think. Moving is good, static might be an indicator..This I can tell you, ANY freediver on my boat from here on out WILL have a float so they can be located NO EXCEPTIONS. YOU ALL KNOW WHO YOU ARE...:whip::D
Hell a floats not a bad idea for any diver. They use em all the time on the east coast for drift divin.

I cant tell you the number of times I've or someone on the boat said where's so and so? , then we're all scanning the waters...cant follow the bubbles...
I'm not saying one is safer than the other I just like the comfort of having something that says "hey dumbass, time to come up, your too deep, your ascent is too fast, your outta air etc.

I have no dog in this fight..I'm just making all of you aware that there's some inherent danger as outlined in a good article. :toast:

I was in the pool today doing my normal hourly swim. It was hard to stay calm and at one time I felt like I was going to b/o I pushed so hard. I have done this once before. It made me think about freediving and how imparitive it is to have a buddy, just like a lifegaurd at a pool. It also made me think about the two are somewhat related you must rely on another person to get you out of trouble. Sometimes I think it will take awhile for a lifegaurd to figure out what happened and react, they seem so bored and unattentative.
As far as bad viz, well I havent been in water that bad, fish just arent around when its like that so there is no use to go. I probably couldnt see one and shoot it fast enough. Murky water could just tell you what freediving or a fish means to you. If your willing to take that chance to dive in the murk then you should know the dangers of it.
But like any extreme sport people should know what they are getting themselves into before getting into it. Some people just live for it and couldnt find happiness in anything else. That is why some people go back after black out, surgeries, and near death experiences in all sports. Its the love and passion for it all. Some people say if they are going to pass away, they wish to go doing something they love.
I dont see freediving any more life threating than my days at the pool doing the normal freestyle lap swimming. We take life threatening risks all the time doing the things we love to do. Maybe there is more of a risk management issue here for freediving that can be prevented but I dont think its anymore dangerous than the other things I or anyone else does. If the lifegaurd isnt paying attention it could be too late just like the freediver and his buddy.
This was all a thaught I had while waiting for that next stroke to take a breath...