Has anyone tried to hook one of these up in their boats yet. Basicly it splits water into Hydrogen and Oxygen Gas on on demand so you don't have to store any dangerous gasses on your boat.

What you do is pipe this enriched gas into the air intake of the engine. It helps the engine get a better/cleaner burn which will increase horsepower and fuel efficiency. You have to be carefull not to use too much HHO gas because it will affect the timing (the new gas burns faster than normal gas).

Appariently Diesel engines gan benift more than fourstroke gas. I have not seen too much about people using these on 2strokes.

Anyone of us could build one of these things using parts from Home Depot. Here are some links:

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt10.html - all about them

http://www.smacksboosters.110mb.com/ - easy one to build

http://www.gethydropower.com/ - some expensive but nice ones.

One of the local news channel has asked my proffesor to test the hydro4000 which costs around $1200. He'll put together a group and try it out soon.

Lets say you do save %20 how long will it take to pay for itself?

3 years if gas was a constant $4.

You can make one yourself for around $100. I am only a few pieces away from having built my first one and i have so far spent around $60 for parts and $50 for tools i didn't have.

A 20% savings on gas can = $100 easily on one trip to the grounds.

I've been thinking about building one. Which one are you making? Please keep us apprised of your progress.

Good thread, can you guys post some pictures of your progress.

I am going to start with the smacksbooster just to learn the ropes. I was then going to try some of the more advanced versions. I will take pictures of my progress.

My first goal is to put it into my 2001 Jeep Wrangler.

A 20% savings on gas can = $100 easily on one trip to the grounds.

1st law of thermodynamics, there is no such thing as free energy. It will take more energy to separate water into hydrogen/oxygen than you reap from the more complete combustion benefits of the little added oxygen. BTW, Where are the platinum electrodes required for electrolysis? Mentions nothing about those in the article. Of course, adding oxygen does allow for more complete combustion, but at what expense? Superchargers, turbochargers, now electrolysis...

No data, no backing oxidation-reduction equations, just claims and cool home depot pictures. Where is the data? Most EFI motors today are are optimized for a more complete combustion. How do you control the air/fuel ratio with these devices over a wide RPM range as to not interfere w/ the EFI system? There seems to be no analog flow control on the gas produced, although it is an extremely slow flow. Just on/off.

I seriously, seriously doubt the 20% savings. Be careful playing with that shit, too. I am very skeptical of any website claiming such things with no data or scientific proof or research. For a claim of 20%, we deserve more than a one sentence explanation. Not meaning to be a pessimist butthole, its just something to consider before you spend $$$ and your personal money before finding out what really may happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car

Good luck, keep us informed. Don't burn your eyebrows off!! (ahem...Marcus :D)

1st law of thermodynamics, there is no such thing as free energy. It will take more energy to separate water into hydrogen/oxygen than you reap from the more complete combustion benefits of the little added oxygen. BTW, Where are the platinum electrodes required for electrolysis? Mentions nothing about those in the article.

No data, no backing oxidation-reduction equations, just claims and cool home depot pictures. Where is the data? Most EFI motors today are are optimized for a more complete combustion. How do you control the air/fuel ratio with these devices over a wide RPM range as to not interfere w/ the EFI system? There seems to be no analog flow control on the gas produced, although it is an extremely slow flow. Just on/off.

I seriously, seriously doubt the 20% savings. Be careful playing with that shit, too. I am very skeptical of any website claiming such things with no data or scientific proof or research. For a claim of 20%, we deserve more than a one sentence explanation.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-fuelled_car

Um...you forgot about the flux capacitor. That's the key component. :)

Um...you forgot about the flux capacitor. That's the key component. :)

From what I know, flux capacitors run on empty bean cans and banana peels (reference Back to the Future part III). Between today's price of steel, and having banana peels on a boat, I don't think its a good option, either. :D

From what I know, flux capacitors run on empty bean cans and banana peels (reference Back to the Future part III). Between today's price of steel, and having banana peels on a boat, I don't think its a good option, either. :D

Actually, come to think of it, the thingy that Ironman has on his chest is designed to create/generate power, right?

Surely it could be adapted to spin a propellor - after all, it makes it possible for Ironman to outrun an F-22 raptor.

Seriously - does anyone really think that there's some little guizmo that will create energy? If so, I can't believe it's not made the news yet.

We made a oxygen/hydrogen making device in Junior High school. Battery charger, 2 -1 liter graduated cylinders, wire, water. THe battery charger would make a gas from each electrode, the neg would have one and the pos would have one. One cylinder-upside down in the water would catch the gas from one of the electrodes and of course the other cylinder above the other electrode. One would collect 50% of the others amount-that was the oxygen one. I would suppose that is how they make oxygen and hydrogen commercially. I guess this thing makes the O2 and H from the water and electricity and directs it into the intake. Like inletsurf said, it would not be much, and it would not be able to control much. They have LP gas injection into the intake tubing for diesel high performance, and I know it really does do a lot. It can also do some high performance for gasoline engines, doing the same thing, but all at a price-a high price. I know nitrous oxide gas will really make a perfomance boost, but equal amounts of gasoline must be put in the engine or it will eat a hole in the piston in a second. I cant see how it could make much gas to really affect the perfomance or fuel economy at all, with this gizmo. It took many hours to fill a 1 liter cylinder with gas from a battery charger. I suppose if you had a very powerful electric current, it would make it much faster, but as inletsurf said, it is not without its cost. It could use stainless steel as an electrode, we use them in reverse electrolysis units to clean shipwreck relics, and they last for quite a while.

Boss put one on his Avalanche in Orlando for 250.00 @ 80mph he's gaining 4mpg!!

The free energy argument is the most common objection. The cool thing is that you are not creating energy. You are just releasing the potential stored in water so you can use it in a different form. I am looking to keep the amps around 20 or less and get 1Liter per min of HHO. There are many different designs of anodes that yield different results. There are some more advanced HHO generators that use pulse frequencies to get magnitudes more gas at low amps.
Inlet, I would love to have someone like you collaborate in this experiment. There is too much empirical evidence out there to write off the results many people are getting from adding a booster to their vehicles. There has to be more going on than just a straight energy equation. I am just trying to keep an open mind and ask questions.

The link said it makes 1.7 liters of "hydroxy" a minute, which is I would suppose 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part oxygen. Since a boat with a lets say a 350 chevy with 300 horsepower, cruise/planing is probaly 3500 RPM, and on a boat at that RPM, it is pulling in about 450 CFM-cubic feet of air a minute, if not more. The carbed versions of that engine have a 750 CFM Rochester 4 barrel, and at WFO and loaded down boat, I am sure it would suck in near that probably 600 CFM anyway. 2- 3 liter 200 hp outboards would suck in more. I am not sure 1.7 liters of "hydroxy" a minute would do too much to that engine for performance. Maybe it will. 1.7 liters is only about 1/1000th of 450 cubic feet of air. We'll see! True, it should improve the performance some, but I cant see very much. And 20 amps is a lot. But the battery charging system should keep up, since most boats have at least a 50 amp alternator and much reserve in the batteries. If it works, that would be great. Everyone would have them then.

One of the stated mechanisms for the increased fuel efficiency is due to the hydrogen causing a complete burn negating the need for a catalytic converter.

BayonetPoint, I am very interested in seeing what you guys come up with. Let me know how it goes, and maybe we can figure out a simple way to measure power expended/power generated, difference in efficiency, and combustion ratios.

One of the stated mechanisms for the increased fuel efficiency is due to the hydrogen causing a complete burn negating the need for a catalytic converter.

How does hydrogen cause a complete burn? A catalytic converter provides 3 reduction reactions that remove 1) NOx, 2, some CO, and 3)HC's through varying fuel mix ratios, and the use of the catalyst. Again, some balanced chemical equations would explain a lot.

Marcus, I took the catalytic converters off my boat, so it should be more powerful:lol:. Who knows this may work to some extent, but I cant see 20% fuel economy, since it is not even close to 1% of the air going in, more like .001%. But you never know.

Why not wood gas? You could just fill up with your neighbor's mulch before you leave the house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodgas

I save 20% on gas every week... I fill up on monday and by Friday I have saved 20%;)

I am not an expert however i will try to respond based on the research i have been doing.

They are saying the extra oxygen present during the explosion in the chamber causes a more complete burn of the gas. The hydrogen just helps add a little more punch because it is 2.5 times more explosive than gasoline.

I found a thread in a forum where a guy added an HHO system to his 350 inboard. He increased his top speed from the 41 to 53 via gps. He also blew his engine 3 months later.

How could that be a placebo effect? There is more going on than Farting into the air intake. The below end results are not what i am trying to achieve however. I am looking for efficiency not top end speed.

The full discussion is here: http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1720 Look for quotes from Maintenanceman



Agree that there is more " power" involved with "boosting" but think about each molecule individually h2 and petro,they both have different flash points and have different ways of releasing the stored energy in each other. H2 releases its energy MUCH faster than petro.Therefore as an engine is designed to run on petro the entire crank cam etc are set up for this.There will be a possibility that the energy released by the H2 might actually hinder the burning of the petro/air vapor in the cylinder.causing pre-ignition and believe me from my own experience, MAOR INTERNAL ENGINE FAILURE!What i believed to have happened is that the "oil film" that keeps the bearing lubed is not designed for the extra force that the H2 introduces to the internal engine parts.And H2 has alot more force in it than gasoline.I just completed a rebuild on the boat i fried this summer...the block was not salvageable...all of the bearings in the cam and crank were severely damaged as well. I am not saying it CANNOT be done...just take great care when playing with this energy...as everyone should...i learned the hard way ..was just offering my input! Like "They" say take what you want and leave the rest!!As always good luck with your experimenting!!

Motor was a 2.3L Ford Marine Engine with an OMC Sterndrive.
Top speed w/o hho 41 mph via gps.
Top speed w/ hho 53 mph via gps.
Time lapsed after installation of booster till spontaneous failure...3 months and i have personally maintained this engine since it was new.oil changes and regular maintenance every season!
Pre installation of engine booster was 4 yrs of absolutely NO problems whatsoever.

Thats what my suspicions were, that the addition of extra oxygen is allowing a more complete combustion.

don't some racing boats/cars inject oxygen into their engines?

Why not wood gas? You could just fill up with your neighbor's mulch before you leave the house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodgas

Switch grass?

Biofuel

Panicum virgatum 'Heavy Metal' switchgrass in early summerSwitchgrass is often considered a good candidate for biofuel — especially ethanol fuel — production due to its hardiness against poor soil and climate conditions, rapid growth and low fertilization and herbicide requirements. Switchgrass is also perennial, unlike corn, and has a huge biomass output, the raw plant material used to make biofuel, of 6-10 tons per acre.[15][2] President George W. Bush mentioned this usage in his 2006 State of the Union address [16] [17][18]; since then, over $100 million has been invested into researching the potential fuel source[19].

Switchgrass has the potential to produce the biomass required for production of up to 100 gallons (380 liters) of ethanol per metric ton.[20] This gives switchgrass the potential to produce 1000 gallons of ethanol per acre, compared to 665 gallons for sugarcane and 400 gallons for corn.[21]

However, there is debate on the viability of switchgrass, and all other biofuels, as an efficient energy source. University of California, Berkeley professor Tad Patzek argues that switchgrass has a negative ethanol fuel energy balance, requiring 45 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.[22] On the other side, David Bransby, professor of energy crops at Auburn University, has found that for every unit of energy input, switchgrass yields four units out.[23] In a 2007 lecture Professor Richard Muller, also of the University of California, Berkeley, noted that it is the conversion of switchgrass biomass into ethanol which introduces significant inefficiencies. He also noted that The Helios Project at Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory is actively trying to engineer metabolic pathways in bacteria to more efficiently convert cellulose to ethanol. Bransby's work was the source for President Bush's comments in the 2006 State of the Union address.

Switchgrass is being used to heat small industrial and farm buildings in Germany and China through a process used to make a low-quality natural gas substitute.[2] It can also be pressed into fuel pellets which are burned in pellet stoves used to heat homes, which typically burn corn or wood pellets.[24]

In the spring of 2008, 1,000 acres (4.0 km²) of switchgrass will be planted near Guymon, Oklahoma, in the Oklahoma Panhandle to study the feasibility of utilizing the crop for biofuel. It will be the largest stand ever planted for such purposes. The project is being spearheaded by the Oklahoma Bioenergy Center, a state project backed by Governor Brad Henry.[25]

don't some racing boats/cars inject oxygen into their engines?

Yes, almost all do via means of nitrous/turbos/superchargers, and what they are trying to do is not to improve efficiency, but increase the amount of fuel and air flow to the cylinder and produce a more powerful stroke. Getting the fuel into the cylinder is relatively easy, getting the air (and right amount of oxygen for the proper mixture) is the hard part. Which is why turbos/superchargers work by compressing the air, and nitrous works by introducing more oxygen into the combustion cycle when it breaks down at elevated temperatures.

some entertaining video by the designer of the booster i am trying to replicate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxPQdrfSySI&feature=PlayList&p=12E743438CDD35F3&index=0&playnext=1

This is one of the units that takes magnitudes less energy to "Crack" the water using pulse generators.

http://www.aquapulser.com/index.html

I came across this article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday and remembered that this thread was active on SFP, so I thought that I'd share it with you guys. It's entitled "Do Fuel Savings Gadgets Take You for a Ride?" I've included the link below:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121253615580242807.html


Andrew

Booster installed in the Jeep.

Check out the pics in my SFP Album. This is the test case. If it works great here i might consider putting on a 4stroke outboard or diesel boat engine.

http://www.spearfishingplanet.com/album.php?albumid=11

Hey BP, call me today if you get a chance. I want to chew the fat.

Booster installed in the Jeep.

Check out the pics in my SFP Album. This is the test case. If it works great here i might consider putting on a 4stroke outboard or diesel boat engine.

http://www.spearfishingplanet.com/album.php?albumid=11

Looks pretty cool, I like how you use stainless wall plates. Let us know how it works!!

I turned it on today on the way to work and that means it ran for 30 min and 20 miles. The engine did seem to run a little smoother and cooler. It did seem to have a little more hp too (less pedal for same speed) Of course the observations could be placebo. :)

I normally get about 260 - 280 miles before the gas light comes on. then i put in 14 gallons. so we will know in a few days what my new fill up milage will be. This will be a more true test of economy.

does anyone know this guy?

http://www.hytechapps.com/company/press

Denny Klein – Founder and Chairman Emeritus
Mr. Klein is an inventor, entrepreneur and marketer of innovative products. He founded HTA in 1997 and continues to be involved in the Company's research and development efforts. Mr. Klein also continues to aid the Company's efforts in establishing strategic alliances, partnerships and relationships with third parties that can market the Company's existing products and services, and in exploring licensing opportunities for the Company's technologies.

Mr. Klein has extensive international trade experience that includes taking new products from conception through manufacturing and setting up national and world distribution centers. Mr. Klein also holds several patents and patents pending on products for high-tech industries.

The Company has acquired all of its technology from Mr. Klein.

Check, check, check it out...

http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561&videoChannel=74

it is about damn time. I want one.

update on fuel difference.

On thursday morning i topped off the gas tank and drove with the booster on. On friday morning i topped off the gas again before work i had averaged 21.4 MPG.

On friday i did not use the booster at all. After work on Friday i filled up again.
16.8 MPG.

This equals a 27.3% increase. :bounce:

Same driving conditions???

Pretty much. the only difference was thursday was a little more stop and go. Just my commute to and from work.

That is a huge increase, a lot more than I was expecting! Very cool.

Thanks for sharing the results, I'm also very surprised to see such a large increase.


I'm thinking the gain on a boat application would be much less. In a car the extra power made by the hydrogen will help keep the transmission in a higher gear. But on a boat that's not the case, You would have to create enough extra power to increase prop pitch in order to see large difference right? Of course a smoother, cooler more powerful engine is always a good thing.

I am not happy with the container i used. i don't think it is taking the heat generated by the electrolsis well. I have started to build a new container out of lexan, starboard, ss screws, and silicone. the lexan is rated to 270 F. so that should do much better.

Please give us an ongoing report of your mpg's plus any problems you have with your engine that could possibly be related to your new experiment.

I just found this video. it supports my test results. This person put one in a jeep too. basicly similar milage results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWKG4oM1k_A&feature=related

So is the mileage gain caused by the engines computer system leaning out the fuel mix? If so a fuel injected fourstroke out could also see good results.

My thoughts on adding this to diesel powered boat was that the engine burns 10gph @ 3000rpms and adding HHO will not change this, only improve power.

update on fuel difference.

On thursday morning i topped off the gas tank and drove with the booster on. On friday morning i topped off the gas again before work i had averaged 21.4 MPG.

On friday i did not use the booster at all. After work on Friday i filled up again.
16.8 MPG.

This equals a 27.3% increase. :bounce:

How many gallons did you put in?

Just a couple each time. I am almost done building my new container. I will have it installed by monday. This one is a much more permanant solution. All of the materials are rated to above water boiling point temperatures.

It is a 16 plate design same configuration as before (+NNNNNN--NNNNNN+) this time i went to a steel recyling business and found a few scraps of 316 SS 3/32 thick all cut to similar sizes. i am going to use SS wire as the conductors which should give me more flexability in how they are conected to the terminals and not put physcial strain on the container.

The box is rougly 4x6x10 and the walls are made of Lexan. I am going to perminantly seal the box but include a screw off refill cap so i can dump in more distilled water when it needs it.

for the bubbler i am going to use one of the $1 waterbottles that you get near the front door of target. This container will have pop-off hose connections in case of a back fire.

I am also going to move the on/off switch into the cabin of the jeep. I should have my ammeter (measures amps) soon and i will put that next to the switch in the cabin.

Once i get a stable solution for the HHO generator i am going to purchase an EFIE to lean out the gas. I will also be buying one of those diagnostic computers like they have in the video. this way i will be able to monitor the whole situation. I think a wireless or wired thermomiter will also be a nice touch to affix to the generator to be able to monitor water temperature.

I have some check valves coming in the mail too and i am going to install one of them to the top of the generator to allow for air to enter the container when it cools down after use when the cooling gas creats a vaccume which is what cracked/warped my previous container.

I will be installing the plates and closing up the cell tonight. I will also probably do a productivity test tonight which i will film and post here so you guys can see what happens.

how did you fake out your mass airflow sensor or o2 sensor? how is the new design?

Here is the new design.

I finally installed it last night. I will top off my tank today and start recording readings. I moved the switch into the cabin so i can turn it on and off now without opening the hood.

although the box looks pretty sealed i still had some issues with leakage for a while.

Here is the link to my gallery.

http://www.spearfishingplanet.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=524