Science – For us? Or against us?

Those who regulate our fisheries rely heavily upon research provided by the scientific community. Some of this research is funded and interpreted by well funded scientists with an established ‘anti-fishing’ bias (http://spearfishingplanet.com/showthread.php?t=623). The Fishing Rights Alliance (http://thefra.org/) (FRA) spends a lot of time evaluating the accuracy and intended interpretation of this data to find and expose flawed and exaggerated data that is skewed to unfairly restrict our access to our fisheries.

If this is our defense strategy against the anti-fishing scientific community, what is our offense?

1. Are there scientists with whom we work to collect and interpret our own data?
2. If so, who are they?
3. If not, who are candidates with whom we could work?
4. Under the supervision of a reputable scientist, can we establish a way in which spearfishermen can contribute verifiable data to our scientists?
5. How many of us would be willing to take the time to collect and report this data to our scientists?

Consider our potential influence with the scientific community. Through my recent work with Dr. Samuel Gruber's lemon shark research team, I learned just how uninformed scientists can be. After more than 2 months of trying to catch these sharks so he could tag, collect data and implant a radio transmitter in them, they had caught nothing. When spearos got involved, after 4 days he had caught 12 sharks. Were it not for the assistance of myself and a commercial shark fishing buddy of mine, Doc Gruber may not have caught any lemon sharks for his research during the three months he was here this past year.

We were published in Doc Gruber's final report, lending credibility to us individually and to spearfisherman at large. (If anyone wants to read the final report, PM me with your email address and I'll send it to ya)

So my question is: If enough of us contribute in this manner, can we use this influence to shape fishery management?

I think we have worked WITH scientists to some extent. The Hog fish study is one example. I know Ed Walker has worked many of the scientists dawn in St Pete. Denny is working on the proposed jew fish study now. I know of a couple other scientific studies that divers/shooters may be involved if they move forward.

As far as the FRA using more of a defensive rather than offensive approach, I would agree that at times it's the only option we have at the time. Once the SEDAR process is in motion we are kept very busy deciphering the data and studies and finding any mistakes.

I believe that an offensive approach would be very helpful and some options have been discussed. The more we can get word out that we as a community are willing to help the scientists that are after factual information and data the higher the chance we have of being asked to assist.

I was thinking we could begin taking and keeping assessments of our own, and keep them handy for use when needed.

Following the same format that the scientists use, if we start collecting data now we'll already have it when Denny needs it in the future.

I think it is a great idea, but in order for it to have much weight we have to work with a fisheries scientist that can over see the entire process. Once the Gag mess gets finalized I think we should see what is currently in the works or under way and offer our help.

"After more than 2 months of trying to catch these sharks so he could tag, collect data and implant a radio transmitter in them, they had caught nothing. When spearos got involved, after 4 days he had caught 12 sharks. Were it not for the assistance of myself and a commercial shark fishing buddy of mine, Doc Gruber may not have caught any lemon sharks for his research."

Stabby: I work on Doc Gruber's lemon shark project, too and while I certainly agree that your assistance has been (and hopefully continues to be) a vital cog in the project, I consider your claims a little exaggerated. While, the rest of us field grunts were all grateful when Mike finally got Doc to accept that a different fishing method than works in Bimini was warranted (we'd been hoping for this for quite sometime) he had managed to catch some lemons here in the previous years (albeit, not a lot) and had caught one male on the Governor's Walk this season as well before Mike graciously offered his assistance. Further, although Mike has a history of spearfishing I suspect that it's his past years as a commercial shark fisherman that gave him the expertise to improve Doc's catch, not that he was a "spearo".

Beyond these details, I agree with you that the spearos need to work with the scientists such that greater management is achieved and BOTH learn new things.

Bill

I think it is a great idea, but in order for it to have much weight we have to work with a fisheries scientist that can over see the entire process. .

This is correct. Very stringent criteria and procedure must be followed in order to get accurate and useable data.
We can certainly work with the scientists and we are slowly prooving that we can show them things they could not begin to see.
As Gamble pointed out... the hogfish study was a great example and showed that the spearfsihing community can be a great source of information.

Currently... I am the Co-principal investigator for an approoved Goliath Grouper tagging and counting study that will start in about 2 months.
My Co-PI is a biologist that works for the state.
It involved quite a bit of work as well as certification by the Academy of Underwater Science on my part but I think it will be worth it in the long run.:thumbup:
There are also several other divers in my group who have been certified to dive with the biologist that have also been AAUS certified.

Cooperative research projects are just that. They are "cooperative". Meaning the scientists cooperate with industry and stakeholders.

There is a catch 22 to this also. Several years ago there was a cooperative research project performed with longliners assistance to guage bycatch, and bycatch mortality.
Now anybody who knows anything about longlining knows that bycatch/mortality can be controled to a certain extent.
Depth, area, soak time,retrieval speed, bait, hook size, leader length, etc... all play a big part in the final results.

I would be skeptical of certain CRP studies depending upon how they are performed and by whom.

Finnaly...As more of us start to get our foot in the door of management AND science, I think you will start to see a shift towards good management and better science

Science – For us? Or against us?

Those who regulate our fisheries rely heavily upon research provided by the scientific community.
3. If not, who are candidates with whom we could work?


I've gone back to school and have noticed a fraction in one's education depending on what your major is. At UF there is the Ag business School and then there is the Business school. Both teach very similar curriculum but they both view the same subject from a different perspective.
Is it possible that the "scientist" who oppose fishing come from say the zoology department, and we need scientist who come from the Ag business department?

I've gone back to school and have noticed a fraction in one's education depending on what your major is. At UF there is the Ag business School and then there is the Business school. Both teach very similar curriculum but they both view the same subject from a different perspective.
Is it possible that the "scientist" who oppose fishing come from say the zoology department, and we need scientist who come from the Ag business department?


Todd,
No disrespect but I think you may be missing the point.
The scientists who are comming up with a lot of this bogus data are not neccesarily against fishing. Its more a matter of who butters your bread.
Organizations like Pew and Ocean Conservancy seek out scientists with certain propensitys and get them hooked on research money.
If your study comes up with conclusions that please the Pew or OC then you get more funding. If you do not, then you do not get funded by them again.
In my opinion and in my experience... its as simple as that.

I wish it were a perfect world but the all mighty dollar gets in the way every time.
I am seeking a scholarship from the HVAC industry; they are only interested in giving me money to go to school if I plan on specializing in HVAC with in Mechanical Eng.
Do you mean to say that the guys with all he money are the ones who get the scientific reports to say what they want them to say, or the guys with all the money that are willing give grants get what they want said. We need to lobby big business that is in favor of our fishing rights. I just think all to often those big businesses see a scientific study as a waste of money, where as the Pew or OC raise money to do just what they always wanted to. Its funny how big money makers often try and "repent" by funding "studies" or philanthropy type things. I just read some interesting things on the Microsoft Corp. How it has funded environmental clean ups as a philanthropic gesture wile all the time it is making billions on investments in the very businesses who damaged the environment in the first place.

Todd,
No disrespect but I think you may be missing the point.


I guess I'm trying to get the point, I'm interested in protecting my rights as a fisherman, spear, pole, or..... teeth or what ever kind of harvest, well with in reason.
"You gotta eat" ya know.
:corkysm60:

I guess I'm trying to get the point, I'm interested in protecting my rights as a fisherman, spear, pole, or..... teeth or what ever kind of harvest, well with in reason.
"You gotta eat" ya know.
:corkysm60:



Todd,
Check this thread out.
I think it will help explain things better than I can.:toast:
http://spearfishingplanet.com/showthread.php?t=553&highlight=Recreational+fishing+alliance

"After more than 2 months of trying to catch these sharks so he could tag, collect data and implant a radio transmitter in them, they had caught nothing. When spearos got involved, after 4 days he had caught 12 sharks. Were it not for the assistance of myself and a commercial shark fishing buddy of mine, Doc Gruber may not have caught any lemon sharks for his research."

Stabby: I work on Doc Gruber's lemon shark project, too and while I certainly agree that your assistance has been (and hopefully continues to be) a vital cog in the project, I consider your claims a little exaggerated. While, the rest of us field grunts were all grateful when Mike finally got Doc to accept that a different fishing method than works in Bimini was warranted (we'd been hoping for this for quite sometime) he had managed to catch some lemons here in the previous years (albeit, not a lot) and had caught one male on the Governor's Walk this season as well before Mike graciously offered his assistance. Further, although Mike has a history of spearfishing I suspect that it's his past years as a commercial shark fisherman that gave him the expertise to improve Doc's catch, not that he was a "spearo".

Beyond these details, I agree with you that the spearos need to work with the scientists such that greater management is achieved and BOTH learn new things.

Bill

Bill,

Thanks for the clarification! I went back and clarified that my efforts were only during this year's research. I wasn't involved in previous years efforts, so I cannot comment on those years.

HOWEVER... to further illustrate the point that we should become active in the scientific community, here are excerpts from the Good Doc's published report showing how effective this liason was to his research:

"The 2005 fishing season saw the successful capture of two mature and three immature lemon sharks." Total sharks caught: FIVE
"The 2006 fishing season was relatively unproductive...two males and one female were captured". Total sharks caught: THREE
"The 2007 season of lemon catches started off slowly but gained momentum. The first lemon sharks were captured 21 February at the Shasha Wreck" Total sharks caught: TEN.

The primary improvement in catches during the 2007 season came when Todd Breen, a local spear fisherman aficionado introduced us the Newman Brothers... Capt. Mike Newman, an ex-commercial shark fisherman with an encyclopedic knowledge of the local shark fauna generously agreed to share his insights and techniques by taking us shark fishing on 23 February on his self-built 40’ sportfisher, the F/V Dykoki. Mike introduced us to the fishing technique he called ‘polyballing’ which involves floating several large polyurethane balls in a row, each with a single drop-line and hook, separated by several hundred meters. The balls drift in line with the current and when a shark takes the bait it pulls the ball out of formation alerting the fishers.

Capt. Mike was confident he could capture lemon sharks but we were rather skeptical based on the poor catches in the weeks prior to Mike’s trip. However our skepticism quickly turned to awe as by the end of the night he had caught one female and two male adult lemon sharks.

Bill I certainly wasn't trying to take any spotlight - let's face it, I'm just a recreational spearfisherman, albeit one who has had experience observing what makes adult lemon sharks get interested in eating. :rolleyes: Mike on the other hand, deserves all of the credit his 'encyclopedic knowledge' gets.

Doc Gruber was the one who was so thrilled that the spearing and fishing community had brought the 200-300% annual increase in productivity to his efforts. Which brings me back to my original point.

1. Commercial guy Mike and I helped bring about what the Doc hadn't done in two months.

2. Doc Gruber appreciated the help, published us in his report.

3. Finding 'reasonable' scientists and offering to help them collect verifiable data can only help our efforts in refuting skewed data provided by well funded extremist scientists intent on turning our reefs into one big aquarium filled with Nemo and love. :rolleyes:

I'm amazed at the opinions and hypocrisy of the average reef hugger. Take for example a distant cousin of mine who I just had dinner with. He's had 2000 dives in 30 years, so he's been around. When he found out I speared fish, he recoiled in HORROR before proclaiming:

1. Spearfishing is the leading cause of shark attacks
Aside from a few bad years (1959 & 1981), the majority of the past 50 years don't support that position. (http://www.sharkattackfile.net/spreadsheets/GSAF5.xls) But what does the average scuba diver think? Misinformation.

2. Spearfishing gives us an unfair advantage against the fish
This comment was made as our halibut appetizers were served.
He's right... we should set down our guns and pick up nets and longlines instead.

Me: "Have you ever tried to hunt & shoot a grouper?"
Him: "NO WAY! I couldn't imagine it"
Me: 'So, how's your fish?'
Him: a dirtly scowl, followed by:

3. Spearing fish is brutal
I won't even get into how hypocritical this is. We don't take 'em out any worse than any other industry, especially when we get a kill shot! As they served up the next course, he steadfastly held to the fact that fishing (which he loves) is good, and spearing is bad. Never mind how 'brutal' fishing can be - he wouldn't hear any of it.

My parting shot came as he took his first bite of our main course...

"So how's your veal?"

Todd.........that post was badass. :toast:

Bill,

Thanks for the clarification! I went back and clarified that my efforts were only during this year's research. I wasn't involved in previous years efforts, so I cannot comment on those years.

HOWEVER... to further illustrate the point that we should become active in the scientific community, here are excerpts from the Good Doc's published report showing how effective this liason was to his research:

"The 2005 fishing season saw the successful capture of two mature and three immature lemon sharks." Total sharks caught: FIVE
"The 2006 fishing season was relatively unproductive...two males and one female were captured". Total sharks caught: THREE
"The 2007 season of lemon catches started off slowly but gained momentum. The first lemon sharks were captured 21 February at the Shasha Wreck" Total sharks caught: TEN.

The primary improvement in catches during the 2007 season came when Todd Breen, a local spear fisherman aficionado introduced us the Newman Brothers... Capt. Mike Newman, an ex-commercial shark fisherman with an encyclopedic knowledge of the local shark fauna generously agreed to share his insights and techniques by taking us shark fishing on 23 February on his self-built 40’ sportfisher, the F/V Dykoki. Mike introduced us to the fishing technique he called ‘polyballing’ which involves floating several large polyurethane balls in a row, each with a single drop-line and hook, separated by several hundred meters. The balls drift in line with the current and when a shark takes the bait it pulls the ball out of formation alerting the fishers.

Capt. Mike was confident he could capture lemon sharks but we were rather skeptical based on the poor catches in the weeks prior to Mike’s trip. However our skepticism quickly turned to awe as by the end of the night he had caught one female and two male adult lemon sharks.

Bill I certainly wasn't trying to take any spotlight - let's face it, I'm just a recreational spearfisherman, albeit one who has had experience observing what makes adult lemon sharks get interested in eating. :rolleyes: Mike on the other hand, deserves all of the credit his 'encyclopedic knowledge' gets.

Doc Gruber was the one who was so thrilled that the spearing and fishing community had brought the 200-300% annual increase in productivity to his efforts. Which brings me back to my original point.

1. Commercial guy Mike and I helped bring about what the Doc hadn't done in two months.

2. Doc Gruber appreciated the help, published us in his report.

3. Finding 'reasonable' scientists and offering to help them collect verifiable data can only help our efforts in refuting skewed data provided by well funded extremist scientists intent on turning our reefs into one big aquarium filled with Nemo and love. :rolleyes:

I'm amazed at the opinions and hypocrisy of the average reef hugger. Take for example a distant cousin of mine who I just had dinner with. He's had 2000 dives in 30 years, so he's been around. When he found out I speared fish, he recoiled in HORROR before proclaiming:

1. Spearfishing is the leading cause of shark attacks
Aside from a few bad years (1959 & 1981), the majority of the past 50 years don't support that position. (http://www.sharkattackfile.net/spreadsheets/GSAF5.xls) But what does the average scuba diver think? Misinformation.

2. Spearfishing gives us an unfair advantage against the fish
This comment was made as our halibut appetizers were served.
He's right... we should set down our guns and pick up nets and longlines instead.

Me: "Have you ever tried to hunt & shoot a grouper?"
Him: "NO WAY! I couldn't imagine it"
Me: 'So, how's your fish?'
Him: a dirtly scowl, followed by:

3. Spearing fish is brutal
I won't even get into how hypocritical this is. We don't take 'em out any worse than any other industry, especially when we get a kill shot! As they served up the next course, he steadfastly held to the fact that fishing (which he loves) is good, and spearing is bad. Never mind how 'brutal' fishing can be - he wouldn't hear any of it.

My parting shot came as he took his first bite of our main course...

"So how's your veal?"

Hahahahahahahahaahaha

I think that working with scientists is the best thing we, as fishermen and spearfishermen, can do. They are certainly not all crooked and hell-bent on the elimination of fishing. Some, however, definitely are. IMO, we can establish ourselves as an honest group that cares about the Gulfs' fish as much as anyone AND has the valuable real world knowledge that is sorely missing in the assessment process right now. The gag assessment is a perfect example. There have been huge mistakes made (and admitted) by Dr. Ortiz in it thus far and it seems as if another is about to be revealed. Nearly all would have been avoided by consulting with actual fishermen. For example; estimated size of gags released-8 pounds? You can have all the classroom schooling humanly possible but without real water experience your work will never be entirely accurate.
For too long experienced fishermen were against all new regulation and were unwilling to admit that anything was overfished ever. Thats not going to get you much respect or clout when a species that really isnt overfished, is attacked by the extremists. It is my belief that by being realistic about the status of the Gulfs fisheries we will gain respect and legitimacy in the management process. There are more and more fishermen out there and some increases in restrictions are going to be warranted, like it or not. Slamming the door on a species when it is not truly justified and pushing for MPA's with every assessment that comes down the pipe however is just plain wrong.
Fairness in fisheries management. Thats a reasonable expectation.
I really enjoy working with the researchers and being part of the process. I am involved with a few stuides at the moment and have learned a great deal along the way.